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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and we have a great one for you this

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evening

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uh we have uh greg bishop who's always a

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lot of fun

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and uh you may have seen him um on tv

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he's been on a number of shows

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um he's been on this show i think one

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time

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only back in 2016. it's always great to

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have him back

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he has really looked at a different way

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at this topic we'll get into that a

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little bit plus he's had written some

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really great books and

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so i think he was on the history

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channels

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he was on unidentified we're going to

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talk about that a little bit later on

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as well um if you head on over to

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the podcast ufo.com uh website you'll

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see our blog this week

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by charles lear is called the portage

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county

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ufo chase it's a incident that happened

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back in april 1966

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an interesting one where police officers

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chased a ufo from portage county ohio

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for 86 miles

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all the way to pennsylvania and they hit

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speeds ranging from 80 to 105 miles an

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hour

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and it's an interesting case i just want

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to know one thing

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when they chased the ufo 86 miles

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could it have been 87 miles i'm not

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really sure so

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i will i actually have hopefully i have

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um

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dale spurs son he was the officer

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is gonna be on the show at some point i

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tried to get him on actually this week

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after i found out that john greenwald

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couldn't make it

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and uh anyway i was really happy

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that uh i forced greg to come onto the

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show

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and uh so here he is uh the speaking of

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john greenwald

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um he will be on i think within a month

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or so

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the black vault um it's john greenwald

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jr of course

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he uh posted the contents of a cd if you

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don't know about this

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of 200 i'm sorry 2 788

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80 pages of cia

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documents that he got through the

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freedom of information act

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so we hope that he will be on the show

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to talk about that

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so if you support the show thank you

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very much i could not

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do that without you and i do want to put

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up this right here because uh

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this is my only ufo painting

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left all i think i had six or so

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and this is the lone one that scene is

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actually mount tam

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out in california and when i lived out

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there i painted that

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and uh well i'll be honest with you i

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added the ufo

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to it but anyway that painting is still

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available

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and it's framed and uh so if you're

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interested let me know i'll cut you a

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good deal i like

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when my paintings go to

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a new home and i have way too many and

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i'm addicted to painting so

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i have to sell paintings in order to

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paint and so that's how that works but

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anyway

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if you're interested let me know i'll

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give you a really good deal you can make

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payments on it whatever if you like it

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and you want it just get in touch with

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me and

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my email address is martin podcast

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ufo.com so if you support the show

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thank you so much i really couldn't do

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it without you

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and if you would like to support the

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show for two dollars or more a month

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and there's yearly pay yearly payments

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as well that's at patreon

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at martin willis podcast ufo that links

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on our website

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before i forget uh next week we have uh

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jonathan lace he's well with among other

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attributes he's the

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s-u-s-c-u scientific uap

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studies coalition public relations

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officer

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we're going to be talking about that and

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a lot more and we do have

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some really great guests coming up

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including

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um a harvard uh

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professor that wrote a book recently

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um about the i always have a hard time

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saying it

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the um it's a hawaiian name

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you know the cigar-shaped meteorite

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flying

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through uh that came in from another

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solar system uh greg you're gonna have

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to help me out on that do you know

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what the name of that it's called o

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muammua

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yeah you got it i think that's i think

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you got it yeah

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is that a book that just came out yeah

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by the guy at uh mit

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or no he's harvard yeah harvard yeah

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that's right

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so he'll be on his name is avi loeb and

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he'll be on

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uh that's march 2nd we do have a lot of

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other great guests

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along with our great guest tonight greg

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bishop how are you

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i'm doing good how are you good good can

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you uh

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for the person that has not uh uh found

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you

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i'm going to post something by tomorrow

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actually the first time in eight months

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wow yeah i know it's been a long time

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yeah and then i got i got four in the

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can

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and one of those is ready to go too so

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i've got some shows coming up one of the

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resolutions is get some more shows up

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this year

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yeah and it's radio mysterious so how do

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you say that

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radio mysterio but yeah right radio

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mysterio so but it's

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m-i-s-t-e-r-i-o-s-o like i guess in

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spanish instead of

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mys yeah so and the links in the show

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notes and in the

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text um on the video as well in youtube

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but anyway uh greg can you let let's

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listen to know

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uh basically what got you into this

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topic in your background

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i don't know what got me into this topic

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reading books when i was a kid

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i was encouraged to read voraciously and

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and 90 of the books i read were on the

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paranormal i don't know why

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wow yeah on ghosts ufos big cryptids

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everything they weren't even called

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cryptids then it was just bigfoot in the

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loch ness monster

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um so yeah i read those when i was a kid

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and then

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why do i look like i'm tilted um

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i read those books and then um lost

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interest in it

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uh from about maybe 12 years old till

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i was like 20. um and then

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uh i had a horrible like terrible

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depression

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decided

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hey why don't i just figure out

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everything's going to be great

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for a while and see how that works out

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and here we are

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um but yeah part of the reason that that

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that happened is because i got

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interested in the ufo thing again

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specifically ufos

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i don't know why it's ufos and not the

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other paranormal stuff i'm certainly

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interested in the other stuff

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and i certainly see the connections

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between them all lots of connections

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um now let me just just ask that a

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little bit because i think that's

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interesting what you just said

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um do you mean you you sort of have like

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a

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oh just pull yourself

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up by your bootstraps because a lot of

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times it's violet i mean it's what

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neurological biological genetic

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and you can't help it um yeah but at

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that time

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um i guess i desperately needed

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something to be interested in so

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i found an article in a zine on like a

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you know

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it was called strange magazine it was

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published by mark travinsky i think

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was it truvinsky i think um out of

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maryland

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i might be wrong anyway there was an

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article in there by robert anton wilson

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i read the article and the article kind

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of opened my mind up to

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um everything connected with the

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paranormal

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um it was basically an excerpt from the

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from the uh

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the inquisition book the book about uh

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science being its own kind of um

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religion

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in some ways uh

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meaning they had had a high priest and

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it had dogma and

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it um you know it's uh it will

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excommunicate people if they say the

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wrong thing

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all this not to say you know and i'm not

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against science at all but

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you know it's given us wonderful things

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like going to the moon and

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cell phones and us talking right now and

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you know cures for diseases

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but um when we're talking about the kind

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of stuff we talk about

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at least up to a few years ago it was

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kind of a death sentence for anybody

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that openly expressed

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continued interest in in paranormal

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stuff

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and um thankfully that's changed

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i mean you're going to have this guy

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available on next week he's part of that

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yeah and actually march just yeah okay

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march 2nd

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but um yeah uh i get that in um

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um you know speaking of science there is

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a i know

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this is way off the ufo topic but um i

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thought found it very

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very interesting uh there's a great

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podcast that i like to listen to it's

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called

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science versus that's it science vs

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and um it's uh um i can't remember her

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name she does a great job

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and the um last week

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it was about mushrooms and depression

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the psilocybin

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they're doing these studies and it

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appears that and in high doses

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and i'm not going to recommend this to

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anybody but i'm just saying

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in this study that they're doing it

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appears high doses of that

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about 65 percent of the time changes

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people with severe depression it

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completely eradicates it

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which is really amazing and yeah and it

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has

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effects uh you know and this is like one

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treatment just the one treatment i think

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it's a great

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it would be a great breakthrough yeah

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yeah it kind of like

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that's been known for a long long long

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long time

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early 60s

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but just the attitude that people have

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towards drugs

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no matter what they are has held that

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00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:09,839
kind of research back

285
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:13,360
um i mean i definitely in the late 60s

286
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:15,440
i think during that prison experiment

287
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:17,120
with timothy leary and

288
00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:20,640
oh yeah maybe uh maybe um

289
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,000
ramdas too um uh

290
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:25,680
they were they did an experiment in

291
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,040
prison and the recidivism

292
00:11:31,230 --> 00:11:29,760
rate went they did lsd therapy like

293
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,240
group therapy with them and uh the

294
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:33,600
recidivism rate went down like 70

295
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,440
percent or something

296
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,519
and there's another substance called

297
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:39,200
ibogaine

298
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,720
from west africa i think it's a root

299
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:44,560
and people were going for ibogaine

300
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:46,640
treatments uh in holland and

301
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:50,160
tijuana i think um and what that does

302
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,839
and i think that's what probably happens

303
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:53,760
during the mushroom thing is it

304
00:11:56,949 --> 00:11:55,920
ibogaine specifically takes you back to

305
00:11:58,629 --> 00:11:56,959
apparently these people

306
00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:58,639
people have been through the treatments

307
00:12:01,110 --> 00:12:00,079
as it takes you back to the thing that

308
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:01,120
caused you to start

309
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,480
the bad behavior whether it be drugs

310
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:07,519
smoking depression whatever it is

311
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,120
it's basically just sit there with your

312
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:10,959
own mind and your own mind

313
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:13,279
it's you're you're being shown what the

314
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:14,399
issue was

315
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,839
like going to therapy where they try to

316
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:17,360
get you back to the source of whatever

317
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:18,320
issue it is

318
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:21,279
ibogaine apparently does this you know

319
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:23,360
over the course of a couple hours

320
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:25,600
um it's not foolproof sometimes it

321
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:27,279
doesn't work and i think

322
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:28,959
there's been a report i think of two

323
00:12:32,629 --> 00:12:31,440
deaths with it and i have no idea

324
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,639
you know how many people have gone

325
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:34,480
through it probably thousands

326
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,600
um wow there's probably a couple deaths

327
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,200
a year from aspirin so

328
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:41,200
yeah that's true all right we're taking

329
00:12:43,390 --> 00:12:42,320
calls right now we're going to help you

330
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:43,400
with your problems

331
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:45,120
[Laughter]

332
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,079
now moving on uh you have to be on drugs

333
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:49,680
yeah you do

334
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:50,800
you knew this was going to come up

335
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:52,160
sooner or later might as well get it

336
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:53,200
over with

337
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,680
steve wants to know well he says that he

338
00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:57,519
loved project beta

339
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,040
do you have any other new book projects

340
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,519
on the horizon yeah i'm working on three

341
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:05,519
one pretty heavily one coming up pretty

342
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:06,399
soon

343
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:08,720
and a third one sometime in the near

344
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:09,680
future um

345
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:11,200
but i just got to get this first one

346
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:12,880
done and it's it has to do with my

347
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:14,639
co-creation thing

348
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:16,959
um so maybe i don't want to talk about

349
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:18,639
it anymore but yeah everybody knows what

350
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:20,160
that is if they've heard me talk

351
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:22,160
i mean it's just the fact we have to

352
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:24,079
include ourselves in the ufo equation we

353
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:24,959
can't just

354
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,519
say that we're cameras or recording

355
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,519
equipment because we're not

356
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:31,440
witnesses are not recording devices

357
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:33,200
they're people

358
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:36,320
well all right uh i've had so sort of

359
00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:36,800
like this

360
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:39,279
this topic come up before similar you

361
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:40,000
know through

362
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,639
some guests and i would ask the first

363
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:44,320
thing that comes to mind when you say

364
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:45,199
something like that

365
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:47,760
is um how does that relate to mass

366
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,790
it means that every well how many mass

367
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:54,399
sightings are there of ufos right in

368
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:55,839
front of people five feet in front of

369
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:56,720
them there's a few

370
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,839
like um the uh the well the first one

371
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:02,160
that comes to mind is the um

372
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,680
it's a school the south african

373
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:05,040
schoolyard one what's the name of that

374
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:05,360
one

375
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:08,320
yeah the ariel school burial school yeah

376
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:09,440
1994.

377
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:13,839
and even within that oh yeah i mean

378
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:16,160
i'm not saying that people don't see the

379
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:17,120
same thing

380
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:20,480
but i'm saying that they spent most

381
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:21,279
sightings are

382
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:24,320
one or two people and even within those

383
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,920
one or two people

384
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:27,839
there's variations in what they saw and

385
00:14:30,629 --> 00:14:29,920
they remembered the aerial school thing

386
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,639
most people

387
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:33,040
most of the kids saw the same thing but

388
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:35,360
the recollections of what they saw what

389
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:37,040
they heard and what happened

390
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:41,040
are not exactly the same yes um so

391
00:14:45,269 --> 00:14:44,399
my point is you can't take all the data

392
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:45,279
that's come up

393
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,959
in in from witnesses in ufo sightings

394
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:50,880
and make assumptions about that data

395
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:52,720
because they're coming through

396
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:54,399
something that's just generally

397
00:14:57,910 --> 00:14:56,320
inaccurate we're not totally accurate in

398
00:15:00,470 --> 00:14:57,920
our recall especially during something

399
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,480
like a traumatic traumatic situation

400
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:02,639
and i will reiterate people say oh you

401
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:04,000
think people are making things up but

402
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:04,480
it's like

403
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:07,279
no no no no no people are seeing

404
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:09,040
something and they're reacting to it and

405
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:10,320
remembering it

406
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:14,079
based on you know a traumatic situation

407
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:16,320
a fight or flight response uh cultural

408
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:17,120
cueing

409
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:20,480
um thinking about it later talking to

410
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,320
other people about it talking you know

411
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:24,079
most dangerously probably to a ufo

412
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:25,199
investigator

413
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,760
because then it just gets codified as a

414
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:29,680
this is a ufo from another planet kind

415
00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:31,440
of story

416
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,639
and i think if they if we concentrated

417
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:36,880
on what witnesses said

418
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:38,959
instead of what we want them to say or

419
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:40,399
think they should say or what we

420
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:43,279
want to hear a new narrative would come

421
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:44,160
out or more

422
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:45,759
it would be a richer experience and more

423
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:47,279
information be available

424
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:49,040
because the information we have hasn't

425
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:51,040
really gotten us anywhere we just still

426
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,480
have this mystery about

427
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:54,160
what's going on if people say well it's

428
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:55,519
definitely people coming from other

429
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,480
planets

430
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:58,720
it's not nobody's been able to prove

431
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:00,480
that that's a good theory

432
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:03,440
and i'm not throwing it out but it's

433
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:04,160
it's just

434
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:07,680
one theory and you know i think if we

435
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:10,079
treat the witnesses story there's a self

436
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:11,199
what what do you call it

437
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,800
a self um uh uh censoring

438
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,399
thing going on with a lot of ufo

439
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:19,440
researchers i was i interviewed um

440
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:21,279
um josh cutchen and tim renner and they

441
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:22,800
were talking about

442
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:25,279
their bigfoot investigation specifically

443
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:25,920
tim's

444
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:30,000
and he was saying that the bigfoot

445
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,240
research community have actively

446
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:33,920
suppressed anything that

447
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:36,800
does not conform to biological thing

448
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:39,120
that lives in the woods

449
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:41,040
anything else like paranormal things

450
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:42,320
that happen um

451
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:46,160
precognition um mimicry that apparently

452
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:46,959
bigfoot does

453
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:50,160
all these weird things he said routinely

454
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,639
not so much now still though but

455
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,399
routinely people would throw

456
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:56,320
you know uh investigators would throw

457
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:57,759
that stuff out because it's like well

458
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:58,639
you know that's just

459
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,560
that's just weird stuff but it's not it

460
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:02,320
has nothing to do with a

461
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:04,079
you know an undiscovered primate living

462
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,919
in the woods because

463
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:07,439
it's obvious when you look at the

464
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:09,919
reports that it's not as simple as that

465
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,839
i mean that could be part of it but it's

466
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,520
not as simple as that and that's kind of

467
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:15,280
how i feel about the ufo thing it's not

468
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:18,000
as simple as we make it out to be uh

469
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:19,439
this is a question up there would that

470
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:19,919
apply

471
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,839
and this is through facebook would that

472
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,600
apply through other areas like

473
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,959
paranormal

474
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,959
seems like it would wouldn't it it would

475
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:28,799
you know especially with cryptid

476
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:29,679
sightings but

477
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:33,039
you know sightings things like that i

478
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:33,520
think

479
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,679
the ghost and the haunting thing is

480
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:36,960
closer to who we are

481
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,840
as as as people and what our how our

482
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:41,120
psyches work

483
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,799
and so um i i would think it's not as

484
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:46,240
much of an issue in some of the other

485
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:46,960
paranormal

486
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:50,320
uh fields um but

487
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,520
i mean i've heard from ghost

488
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:53,280
investigators where somebody they're at

489
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,480
a site and everybody

490
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:57,039
experiences something different you know

491
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:58,480
there's something there but somebody

492
00:18:00,710 --> 00:18:00,160
sees an entity somebody sees a light

493
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:00,720
somebody

494
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:03,280
you know feels a cold spot i've been in

495
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:05,039
that situation i went on a ghost hunt

496
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:08,000
and people saw and felt different things

497
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:09,600
you know it was all coming from the same

498
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:11,200
thing but i don't even know if it's dead

499
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:12,080
people i mean the

500
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:14,320
the gph the dead people hypothesis is

501
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:15,679
something that's also

502
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:18,480
becoming uh is being questioned in the

503
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:20,000
in the ho in the ghost hunting or the

504
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:21,280
haunting community or whatever

505
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:24,000
the people that are into that that study

506
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:25,919
that kind of stuff

507
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:28,960
do you think that it's um the

508
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,160
mind trying to interpret what

509
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:35,280
is happening or do you think they're um

510
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:36,640
do you think it's a memory thing in

511
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:38,080
other words if they wrote everything

512
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:39,440
down immediately after

513
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:42,160
an incident to get everything they can

514
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:43,039
think of

515
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:45,679
instantly do you think do you think that

516
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:46,480
would make

517
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:50,799
um things like uniform no

518
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:53,840
it would make things less uniform

519
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:55,760
and what did you say there's a different

520
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:57,039
like uh memory

521
00:19:00,630 --> 00:19:00,080
and um what was the other thing memory

522
00:19:03,909 --> 00:19:00,640
and the

523
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,919
experience at the time do you think

524
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:05,679
they're experiencing different things at

525
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:07,919
the same time

526
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:10,720
yeah i mean you the way that memory

527
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:12,320
works as far as i know

528
00:19:15,669 --> 00:19:14,160
i mean you know this is some of the

529
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:15,679
stuff i want to talk about in the book

530
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,799
the way that memory works is that

531
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,880
memory is is concerned with what's

532
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:22,720
useful to you not what is accurate to

533
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:23,760
you

534
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:25,360
what's going to keep this from happening

535
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,039
again so i'm going to the mind

536
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:29,520
concentrates and remembers those things

537
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:31,600
like if there's a lion running after you

538
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:32,880
well you know what the first thing you

539
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,559
do is you hide or run up a tree or

540
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:39,669
but you're not going to remember what

541
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:41,360
other animals were in the area or what

542
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:42,799
direction the wind was blowing or

543
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:43,679
anything like that

544
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:45,440
all you remember is i had to run up a

545
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:46,880
tree so

546
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,039
your mind is already self-censoring

547
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,360
what's going on you can't possibly

548
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:53,039
keep track of everything that's going on

549
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:54,400
we would go insane

550
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:57,440
yeah so you know evolution as uh there's

551
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:59,200
a guy named um

552
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:01,919
uh oh what's his name that researcher um

553
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,600
donald hoffman

554
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:05,280
he is i was looking because his book's

555
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,070
visual intelligence i look at the

556
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:11,919
subtitle

557
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:15,360
how we create what we see how about that

558
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:18,720
and his argument is evolution has

559
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:21,120
developed in us this thing where we we

560
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:22,559
recognize

561
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:26,000
what is in what and remember what is

562
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:28,880
important to survival right or getting

563
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,280
food

564
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:31,440
or reproduction or whatever it is

565
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:32,640
something that keeps

566
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:35,760
you you and and the uh and and your

567
00:20:41,909 --> 00:20:39,120
your you know whatever your um

568
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,919
group of living things are whatever

569
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,600
keeps it alive and keeps it going and

570
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:45,360
keeps it well fed and all that

571
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:47,200
that's what is useful to you and that's

572
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:48,640
what is remembered

573
00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:52,320
um so he i'll give you an example and

574
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:56,159
i use this in lectures he he created

575
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:57,600
equations having to do with

576
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,400
survivability of of species

577
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:02,640
meaning he created mathematical

578
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:05,039
equations that had to do with

579
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:08,559
um uh availability of food and

580
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:11,840
climate and you know uh sickness

581
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:14,880
and uh you know rates of birth and

582
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:17,919
survival of of uh young uh

583
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:21,200
young organisms and stuff uh

584
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:23,200
ran these through real world data

585
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,799
meaning you know data that had been

586
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:26,400
collected over hundreds of years

587
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,320
probably or at least the last century

588
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,480
on survivability of species like you

589
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:32,559
know a group of turtles in the galapagos

590
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:33,760
or something

591
00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:37,760
um and then he did he ran them

592
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:41,520
as simulations meaning what would happen

593
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:44,000
in any given group of pop population of

594
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:44,799
animals

595
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:46,640
what would their survivability rate be

596
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:49,679
based on what their perceptions were

597
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:53,520
and he said in every single instance

598
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:56,320
the animals or the populations that saw

599
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:57,039
things

600
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:59,360
that that were useful to them rather

601
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:00,240
than as they

602
00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:02,240
are or as they were were the ones that

603
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,679
survived

604
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:05,760
so i think that's a really important

605
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:06,799
lesson in

606
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,919
uh for ufo researchers meaning you know

607
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,159
we're seeing we're remembering and

608
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:14,080
seeing what was useful to us about the

609
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:14,960
experience

610
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,640
took it a little further

611
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:20,480
i was saying if there's a video or a

612
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:22,640
film or a picture associated with a

613
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:26,559
with a sighting that will be your memory

614
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:28,000
of the sighting it won't be

615
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:29,760
anything that was going on your entire

616
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:31,520
memory will be there to prove

617
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,080
that that picture is what you saw no

618
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:36,080
matter what you saw when it was going on

619
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,840
i i really think that is true

620
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:39,440
like that you know there could have been

621
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,960
a hundred things going on but

622
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:42,559
all you're going to remember is oh

623
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,159
that's the picture that's what i saw

624
00:22:48,149 --> 00:22:46,080
because your memory just goes whoop okay

625
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:48,159
this is this i've got an image here this

626
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:48,799
is what i saw

627
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:50,000
the other thing is you're using that

628
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:51,520
picture to prove that you're not crazy

629
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,559
to other people

630
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:54,640
look i've got evidence of it but the

631
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:56,240
thing is that picture

632
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,240
is not what happened that is a

633
00:23:00,789 --> 00:23:00,159
photographic representation of what

634
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:00,799
happened

635
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:05,120
person and if we can get closer to the

636
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:07,039
experiences that happen to the person

637
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:09,440
i think we can get closer to what it

638
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,559
causes it

639
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,000
what you know that's that's my most

640
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:13,919
important question right now what causes

641
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,120
ufo reports

642
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:17,039
not what are ufos or where do they come

643
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:18,480
from or um

644
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:19,760
you know what does the government know

645
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,360
or anything the most important question

646
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:23,679
is what causes the reports

647
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:26,480
you know why do people report what they

648
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,200
report

649
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:29,280
why do they perceive what they perceive

650
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:31,120
and if we can you know we can figure out

651
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:32,480
how the machine works

652
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:34,159
quote unquote maybe we can figure out

653
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:35,280
how it's picking up whatever it's

654
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:36,720
picking up and maybe we

655
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:39,600
get past that illusion of what we think

656
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:42,320
it is or that our minds think it is

657
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:45,360
um so yeah how about that have you

658
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:47,440
have you yourself ever had a ufo

659
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:48,799
sighting

660
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:51,760
one time i was going to see if my book's

661
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:52,960
here i could show you the picture i

662
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:54,159
drove it

663
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:57,440
and it was um well i had i've had three

664
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:59,919
two were really far away one was at

665
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:02,159
burning man in 1996 and no

666
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,440
i was not on any drugs

667
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:07,520
there were lights that were moving prop

668
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:09,039
i don't know how far away so far away i

669
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:10,320
couldn't tell but they were moving in

670
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,840
vertically and horizontally like an

671
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:12,960
etch-a-sketch

672
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,880
like three or four lights very slowly to

673
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:16,799
any helicopters don't do that

674
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:22,149
they were doing this they're all doing

675
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:24,400
yeah no no drugs i was on

676
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:28,000
um uh the other one was i was in death

677
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:29,200
valley once and i

678
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,120
uh i got there at

679
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:35,200
oh i was driving real late at night and

680
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:37,279
finally got to the hotel in death valley

681
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:39,120
at probably one in the morning

682
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:41,120
and a really really really bright light

683
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:42,320
appeared like a star

684
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:44,480
except like 10 times brighter than a

685
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:45,679
star

686
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:48,159
and it just stayed in one spot for

687
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:50,240
probably four hours

688
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,760
and i looked at it through binoculars

689
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:53,200
and it looked like it was like morphing

690
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,480
and stuff but i figured that was just

691
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:56,240
the atmosphere you know

692
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,679
air currents and heat and all that

693
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:59,360
dissipation and all that

694
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,840
was doing it but it stayed in the exact

695
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:04,080
you know all the stars moved

696
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:06,960
and the moon moved but this light didn't

697
00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:08,640
so it wasn't a star

698
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:10,159
so i don't know what it was and then you

699
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:11,679
know after a while i got bored and i

700
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:13,120
went inside and it came out you know

701
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:14,799
i kept going about once every half hour

702
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:16,240
to check out check it out it was still

703
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:16,720
there

704
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:19,200
same spot strangely enough it seemed to

705
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:20,080
be over the

706
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:23,200
um nevada test site where the atomic

707
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:26,480
atomic bombs are detonated or used to be

708
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:29,600
underground tests um

709
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:32,320
and the the one that i that i do

710
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,279
remember is

711
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:36,080
i was in santa barbara i had just gone

712
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,760
landed in a private plane with a friend

713
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:40,000
of mine at santa barbara airport

714
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:41,760
um because it was so turbulent we were

715
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:43,279
going weightless in our seats and we're

716
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,240
like yeah

717
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:45,840
let's just land hate that in small

718
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,520
planes yeah yeah

719
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:49,600
i it doesn't bother me but it it's you

720
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:50,880
know it bothered him enough because he

721
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:52,480
was doing maneuvers he was practicing

722
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:54,159
for a commercial license

723
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:56,640
so he was doing like spins and and you

724
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:57,600
know and and

725
00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:00,080
stalls and all that stuff um and he's

726
00:26:02,230 --> 00:26:01,760
like i'm uncomfortable doing these

727
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:02,240
things

728
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:05,919
in this weather so we landed um we land

729
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:07,840
i get i i talk to him for a while i get

730
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,200
in the car and then

731
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,880
i'm driving away from the santa barbara

732
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:12,320
airport towards the beach

733
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:14,080
because one of the runways actually we

734
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:15,360
actually took off from that one where it

735
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:16,880
goes right up over the beach and so

736
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:18,000
you know if something happens you fall

737
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:20,880
in the ocean um

738
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:23,679
and i saw this thing that looked like a

739
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:24,080
eight

740
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:27,279
pointed i

741
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:28,960
i'm trying to describe it like if you

742
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:30,720
took if you had a wheel with with

743
00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:33,120
just the spokes and no wheel and it had

744
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,640
you know two cross and two like this so

745
00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:36,720
it had eight arms

746
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:40,480
it was jet black or glossy black

747
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:43,840
and i could see the sun glinting off it

748
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:46,880
and it looked like maybe a quarter mile

749
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,360
away from me so maybe it was 100 or 200

750
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,799
feet or maybe bigger

751
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:52,480
but it's like a drone could it have been

752
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:54,000
a drone

753
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,200
or is this pre-drone isn't it way

754
00:27:02,950 --> 00:26:59,440
pre-drawn it was like 12 years ago

755
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:02,960
yeah and there are maybe 10 anyway

756
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:05,200
i've got the date actually in uh in my

757
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,080
book and um

758
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,640
defy it defies language because i wrote

759
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,080
it up when it happened for the ufo

760
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:12,240
mystic site i mean the day or so after

761
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,440
it happened i wrote it up because i

762
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:15,360
wanted to remember it

763
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:19,440
so i think it didn't move really it was

764
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:22,080
it was like it was on a stick it did not

765
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,840
move and there was wind everywhere

766
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:26,159
so it wasn't a drone wow and it was and

767
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:27,279
as far as i could tell it wasn't

768
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:28,720
attached to anything on the ground and

769
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:29,919
the other funny thing is when i went

770
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:30,880
over there

771
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:33,520
oh one funny thing is i looked at it and

772
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:34,080
i thought

773
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:35,840
and i had a little had those this is how

774
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:37,279
long ago it was i had a

775
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:38,720
cell phone that was one of those flip

776
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:40,799
ones that has a terrible terrible camera

777
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,200
in it

778
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:42,640
if i'd taken a picture of it it's just

779
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:45,200
been a blob um so i just looked at it

780
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:46,240
for a while and then i said

781
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:47,760
i guess i'd better get home and i went

782
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:49,919
home i could have driven

783
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:52,880
five minutes and been right next to it

784
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:53,520
and i didn't

785
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:56,399
do it yeah so i don't know what ranged

786
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:57,039
reaction

787
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,200
yeah yeah i've been interested in this

788
00:28:02,310 --> 00:28:01,360
all my life and i drive away from a

789
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:02,320
dramatic

790
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,559
sighting like that and a lot of people

791
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:06,240
told me they've gotten bored and

792
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:08,559
walked in on a ufo society yeah i think

793
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:09,760
that's pretty interesting

794
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:11,440
buddy if something's just sitting there

795
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:12,799
that i can understand that

796
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:15,279
but you want it it didn't do it move you

797
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:16,559
know you want to see something

798
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:19,039
on your yeah i could see the sun shining

799
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:20,559
off it because it was sunset i could see

800
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:22,000
the orange light of the sun

801
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,399
going down shining off the sides of it

802
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:26,240
yeah like and it was faceted like they

803
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:26,559
were

804
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:28,880
like like there are pencils like you

805
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:30,000
know as if it was

806
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:31,760
like this and all these i could see the

807
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,200
surfaces like that

808
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:35,200
as you know with the light on them it's

809
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:36,240
a polygon

810
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:38,320
yeah yeah but it was you know it was

811
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,919
like a you know

812
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:41,840
like this with two and then you know

813
00:28:47,029 --> 00:28:44,000
eight eight armed thing

814
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:47,039
wow so what that was getting back to

815
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:47,440
your

816
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:51,200
conversation earlier do you think that

817
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:52,640
you may have experienced something

818
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:55,840
different than you actually experienced

819
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:58,000
how do you mean well kind of what you

820
00:29:02,470 --> 00:28:58,960
were talking about

821
00:29:05,590 --> 00:29:02,480
how it's the you know the ufo

822
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:05,600
sighting but each person yes

823
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:07,679
i don't know if yeah i don't know if

824
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:09,679
anybody else saw it or anybody else

825
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:11,360
would have seen it i actually called the

826
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:13,120
control tower the next day

827
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,960
because i was like what am i doing why

828
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:16,799
did i leave i actually called the

829
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:19,039
control tower for the airport because as

830
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:22,320
with you know um i wasn't learning how

831
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:23,039
to fly yet

832
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:24,960
airplanes but i i knew that's the number

833
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:26,240
for the control tower

834
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:28,080
because we had to know it to call it to

835
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:30,000
clear the air space to do paragliding

836
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:31,360
so we would call the tower and say we're

837
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,640
going to be flying at so and so they

838
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,919
would warn the

839
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,440
the jets coming in planes that there

840
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:37,440
were paragliders in the area so i called

841
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,279
the tower that i usually called to say

842
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,799
can you clear the airspace

843
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:42,720
and i said do you guys see a like a

844
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:44,799
black thing over at the end of runway

845
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,120
one

846
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:47,840
five at about four o'clock yesterday

847
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:48,240
nope

848
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:49,440
i didn't see anything like that it's

849
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:52,720
like it was it was plain as day

850
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:54,080
right if you were in the control tower

851
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:55,440
you would have said what the hell is

852
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,960
that

853
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:58,799
so apparently either they didn't want to

854
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:00,240
acknowledge or

855
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:02,000
the person there didn't know anything

856
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,520
about it but they said no absolutely not

857
00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:05,440
nobody said anything about it

858
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:07,279
it's like well holy crap if somebody was

859
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:08,559
there they would have seen it there's no

860
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,000
way you wouldn't have seen it

861
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,720
wow and i called this i called uc santa

862
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:14,399
barbara it was right outside uc santa

863
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:15,840
barbara and asked them if anybody was

864
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:17,679
doing anything testing anything

865
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,679
had anything at that gate outside the

866
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:21,600
university they said no we didn't we

867
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:22,799
don't have anything like that going

868
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,080
there besides we wouldn't do that it's

869
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:26,399
right next to the airport

870
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:29,600
well well i've had my sighting out in

871
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:31,120
you know in california of course you

872
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:33,039
live there i lived there for nine years

873
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:34,480
but uh

874
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,919
i was in carmel area yeah well i was in

875
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:39,760
carmel valley at the time

876
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:42,960
and this headed toward there was a navy

877
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,320
i want to say i don't want to say it's a

878
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:46,720
navy base maybe a navy school

879
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:50,320
in monterey and that's oh yeah

880
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,760
i think they have the the language

881
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,360
school there or something or

882
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:55,919
maybe it's the army go ahead yeah well

883
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:57,519
all i knew is the

884
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:00,320
the object stopped and then went on an

885
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:02,720
angle right toward monterey and i

886
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:06,240
you know um again you know

887
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:09,360
i i say i know what i saw it was it was

888
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,200
every it was clear to me

889
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:12,880
but you know maybe it was a little

890
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:14,799
different i don't know you know i mean

891
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:18,159
the memory thing i know does skew

892
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:21,120
you know but i consistently remember and

893
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:22,640
have told the story

894
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,440
yeah oh no i mean i think the memory of

895
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:27,360
whatever goes on is encoded with

896
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:29,279
like within a split second after it's

897
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:31,360
going on and sometimes a little bit

898
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,799
later too as you're telling the story

899
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,760
and all that it's called memory

900
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:35,360
reconsolidation that's why

901
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:38,159
um uh police and you know and lawyers

902
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:38,880
and all that

903
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,880
have to be really careful about witness

904
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:42,240
testimony at this point because they

905
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:44,480
realize these things happen

906
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:46,720
the other point i wanted to make is that

907
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:49,840
um it seems like the closer

908
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,039
the ufo comes to people

909
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,919
i would venture to say the less

910
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:57,360
coherence you have with different

911
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,480
witnesses

912
00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:00,240
if it's far away people generally say

913
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:01,840
the same thing if it's close up

914
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:03,039
people tend to have different

915
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:04,960
experiences all the way from abduction

916
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:06,399
to nothing

917
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:08,000
like somebody says oh yes and it stopped

918
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:09,279
us and everybody was put in the trench

919
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:10,559
and we were taken on board and all that

920
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:11,919
and other people's like nothing happened

921
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:12,559
to me

922
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,000
i don't remember that happened i didn't

923
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:16,320
see anything or they just remember a

924
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:17,760
light or they just remember up to a

925
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,640
certain point

926
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:21,039
um and people can posit that you know

927
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:22,559
aliens are telling people what to think

928
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:23,760
and blocking their minds out and all

929
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:24,640
that and

930
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:27,679
i think we're which could be true but

931
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:30,399
we're so good at reconsolidating and and

932
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,159
our own memories i don't think the

933
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:34,640
aliens need to really do that much

934
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:35,360
because it's

935
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:37,519
it's the variation the way people

936
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:38,880
remember things is so

937
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:41,519
widespread i've got a t-shirt i sell

938
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,000
that

939
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:44,159
has a ufo on it it says mimic the

940
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:46,000
obliqueness of the subject

941
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:49,120
meaning the subject is not it's not

942
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:52,240
as concrete as anything else

943
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:54,640
like if you want to talk about fixing a

944
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:55,360
car

945
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:57,440
or building a building or whatever or

946
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:59,120
you know even to the point of maybe even

947
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:00,240
solving a crime

948
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:02,240
these parameters are known they're

949
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:04,480
pretty pretty standard and everybody has

950
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:05,200
some sort of

951
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,039
experience with it but if you talk about

952
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:08,960
a ufo sighting especially the close-up

953
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,760
one

954
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,679
hardly anybody has had that experience

955
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:13,360
at least if you pick in a group pick a

956
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:19,430
and that means that whatever they

957
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:22,000
remember has to be hooked into something

958
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:22,960
they know about

959
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:24,320
or at least something that makes sense

960
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:25,919
to them whether it's frightening or

961
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:27,519
dream logic or whatever

962
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:29,200
but something that makes sense because

963
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:30,640
if it makes no sense it just kind of

964
00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:31,840
falls off the table and you don't

965
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:32,559
remember it

966
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,919
i think that's why a lot of people don't

967
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:35,679
remember a ufo sighting until years

968
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,159
later

969
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,679
there's no place to put it in a box in

970
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,760
their brain and it just sits there until

971
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:41,360
something reminds them of it

972
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:43,200
yeah there's been a lot of cases of that

973
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:44,799
you're right this uh

974
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,559
this question is uh did you say earlier

975
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:50,640
that he questioned the ariel sighting no

976
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:53,039
that's not what he was saying basically

977
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:53,919
what he was

978
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:56,799
uh you can correct me if i'm wrong greg

979
00:34:00,630 --> 00:33:57,840
but you were saying that

980
00:34:01,029 --> 00:34:00,640
different witnesses claim to more or

981
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:01,039
less

982
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,399
see different things and that's my

983
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:04,559
experience too because i've interviewed

984
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,919
three of them so far and um

985
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,800
they all see had seen similar things but

986
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:12,240
when it comes to actually talking about

987
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:13,599
the beings

988
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:15,599
um whether they floated were on the

989
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:17,440
ground uh one said that

990
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,639
skipped along really fast and yeah like

991
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,240
sort of blinked in and blinked out while

992
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:24,240
i was going toward a pool i believe he

993
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:26,320
said

994
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:29,679
and the hair long hair

995
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:32,560
some said no there wasn't long hair so

996
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,200
yeah

997
00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:35,440
uh you know it's all it's all different

998
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,399
there but

999
00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:38,000
but all you know something definitely

1000
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:39,200
happened there was something i

1001
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:40,960
questioned the sighting i don't question

1002
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,919
that it happened

1003
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:43,679
and i don't question something extremely

1004
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:45,440
strange happened and very traumatic to

1005
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:46,960
some of these kids

1006
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:48,960
no doubt about that in my mind or very

1007
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:51,040
little well yeah i question just like

1008
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:52,800
what you said i mean there

1009
00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:55,040
because there's some variation what the

1010
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:56,079
recall is

1011
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:58,160
we you know if if i was standing there i

1012
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:59,359
don't know what i would have seen if a

1013
00:35:02,230 --> 00:35:00,800
camera was standing there i don't know

1014
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:02,240
what the camera would have seen

1015
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:04,480
yeah i really don't it might have no

1016
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:05,839
relationship to what those

1017
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:08,160
what those children said because a

1018
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:09,599
person is not a camera

1019
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:12,880
it's not even close a person recalls

1020
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:14,480
things i mean people have a photographic

1021
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:15,040
memory

1022
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:16,960
but that's you can have a photographic

1023
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:18,640
memory but it's going to be your memory

1024
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:19,040
not

1025
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,800
what's the objective observer nobody's

1026
00:35:28,069 --> 00:35:26,480
objective

1027
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:28,079
you know and we have to realize that

1028
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:29,599
it's you know it doesn't mean nothing

1029
00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:31,119
goes on it just means we have to take it

1030
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,800
into account

1031
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:34,720
yep and what you said earlier i totally

1032
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:35,839
agree with

1033
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:38,880
about um there's a lot of like well they

1034
00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:40,480
say humans don't have instincts but

1035
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:41,440
there is a

1036
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:43,280
there are things like the fight in

1037
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:44,800
flight and

1038
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:47,839
um and uh whether you're going to be

1039
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:49,119
eaten by a predator

1040
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:50,480
you know that type of thing that makes

1041
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:52,640
our brain put something in a box like

1042
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:53,680
you said

1043
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:56,160
yeah um so what has to do that's the

1044
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:57,599
only way you can deal with things and

1045
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:58,000
still

1046
00:36:01,510 --> 00:36:00,079
you know keep stuff straight in your

1047
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,520
head because you have like

1048
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,520
70 000 thoughts a day or something in

1049
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:05,440
your head going on anyway

1050
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:07,440
yeah really interesting so i do want to

1051
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:08,560
say in the chat room if you have a

1052
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:09,280
question

1053
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:11,359
please do put it in caps so i catch it

1054
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:13,280
it doesn't go by

1055
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:15,359
and just a reminder we will take uh

1056
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:16,480
calls in the last

1057
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:19,680
half hour of of the show

1058
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:24,320
a question i had um i s you were on

1059
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:27,680
the history channels unidentified

1060
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:30,000
which i thought was a really good show

1061
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:31,200
but um

1062
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:34,079
there was a situation and i'm not to be

1063
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:35,440
honest with you even though i've

1064
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:36,720
tried to get him on the show i'm not

1065
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:39,359
really a fan of richard dodie

1066
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:43,440
yeah and uh uh but i'm not a fan either

1067
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:43,839
but i

1068
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:47,839
i used to know him go ahead yeah yeah um

1069
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:50,240
i guess what i would like to ask you is

1070
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:50,960
they sort of

1071
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,800
in that whole situation and sort of like

1072
00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:58,640
there was like he really didn't see

1073
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:00,160
anything over

1074
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:03,359
over a kirkland in my opinion am i

1075
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,790
i don't remember i think they had me on

1076
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:10,720
as a skeptic

1077
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,880
um about what the government might know

1078
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:14,560
about ufos and

1079
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:16,079
i mean they i think they wanted to

1080
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:21,109
researcher that's really looking into

1081
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:22,640
documents and what the government really

1082
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:24,400
knows and it's like no no no no

1083
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:28,160
it's not you know that's not it but

1084
00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:30,400
yeah i don't you know they only had a

1085
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:32,160
certain amount of time to present

1086
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:34,880
whatever you know my part was i only saw

1087
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:41,670
and i didn't get the feeling you like

1088
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,560
you did that he hadn't seen anything

1089
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,560
um i think the point of the whole

1090
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:48,240
segment was that the government's

1091
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:48,800
interested

1092
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:51,200
and they will and the certain segments

1093
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:53,280
of the government will

1094
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,839
they have their own agendas and that you

1095
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:57,440
have to keep that in mind

1096
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:00,400
when uh looking at government ufo

1097
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:02,320
information and interaction

1098
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:05,119
um so i think that was a point of having

1099
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:06,000
me on

1100
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:08,880
and their point was no what you know

1101
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:09,760
ttsa

1102
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,920
and these people here are not like this

1103
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:13,359
um we're we're

1104
00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:16,400
just to show you what can happen um

1105
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:18,160
we'll have you know greg on and talk

1106
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:20,079
about it um but

1107
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:22,160
uh that that's not what's going on here

1108
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:23,280
i think that's what their their

1109
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:24,400
conclusion was

1110
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:26,720
i i don't totally agree with that but at

1111
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:28,160
least they were fair to me on the show

1112
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:29,760
which is better than i can say about a

1113
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:31,119
lot of shows

1114
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:33,040
um yeah and anybody who's been on here

1115
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:34,240
that that's been interviewed

1116
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:36,720
a show comes on you're like hey how the

1117
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,680
hell did they get that

1118
00:38:41,349 --> 00:38:39,359
on what i said but they'll edit things

1119
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:41,359
to make you look like you said something

1120
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,880
that you didn't actually say

1121
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,400
yeah i actually had that happen on a

1122
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,079
podcast once where

1123
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:48,720
um i was shown footage and they said we

1124
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:50,720
want to get your opinion of this footage

1125
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:53,119
and so i said the positive things about

1126
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:54,160
it and then i said

1127
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,720
here's why i don't think it's a ufo and

1128
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:58,400
they cut that right out

1129
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:01,680
right so it just made me sound like

1130
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:05,440
this is a real ufo yeah i actually

1131
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:08,320
called and had him put that back in oh

1132
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:08,960
that's nice

1133
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:12,160
yeah yeah because it you know most of

1134
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:13,599
these shows what they have is a

1135
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:14,240
narrative

1136
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:18,079
one of the characters in their show

1137
00:39:21,190 --> 00:39:19,680
and the character has to stick to

1138
00:39:23,349 --> 00:39:21,200
whatever

1139
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:23,359
persona they have identified for that

1140
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:24,480
character

1141
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:27,200
and peop most people with you know

1142
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:28,240
decent uh

1143
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,480
uh um what um discernment skills are not

1144
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:34,079
like that

1145
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,839
you know it's like because they'll

1146
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:37,520
interview me and i'll say you know

1147
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:38,800
what do you think about this thing and

1148
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:40,800
i'll tell them i said well it's possibly

1149
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:42,560
this but it can also be another thing

1150
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:43,200
and

1151
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,800
i'm still kind of up in the up in the

1152
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,320
air about it but um

1153
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,320
for right now my opinion is this and

1154
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:49,920
they say well no could you say it this

1155
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:51,280
way and they'll try to put words in my

1156
00:39:53,910 --> 00:39:52,160
mouth and like

1157
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:53,920
no i am not going to say that because

1158
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:56,079
that's not what i think

1159
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:57,280
they said well that's basically what

1160
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,119
you're saying it's like no that's not

1161
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,800
what i'm saying

1162
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,800
and so i've i've not been on a whole

1163
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:04,480
hell of a lot of shows because of that

1164
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:05,839
actually i was kind of surprised they

1165
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:06,640
put me in i

1166
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:09,200
unidentified because they did the same

1167
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:10,560
thing with me could you say it this way

1168
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:11,040
it's like

1169
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,480
no they say okay let's move on um

1170
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:16,240
like i said they were nice about it but

1171
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:17,440
you can tell they're doing the same

1172
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:18,400
thing that

1173
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:20,079
these shows usually do any kind of show

1174
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:21,760
doesn't even have to be a ufo show

1175
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:24,079
here's our so-and-so expert and he's

1176
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:25,760
going to say this or she's going to say

1177
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:26,319
that

1178
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,319
put it in

1179
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:32,560
so i've learned to actually speak what i

1180
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:33,440
want to say

1181
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:36,400
as quickly as i can in a way so that

1182
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:37,680
they can't edit me to be saying

1183
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:38,000
something

1184
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,599
that i didn't say because it'll just

1185
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:42,079
look funny i speak quickly and i speak

1186
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:44,000
clearly about something in short

1187
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:44,880
sentences

1188
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:48,640
or at least i try to and um that

1189
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:50,480
generally guards against them you know

1190
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:52,000
taking whatever i said out of context

1191
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:53,359
because there's nothing to cut it's

1192
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:55,200
nothing to edit or cut to i've done

1193
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:57,760
video editing and uh audio editing too

1194
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:59,599
for quite a few years so i kind of know

1195
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:01,440
what you can do with that stuff

1196
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:04,880
so yeah um there was a show called

1197
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,720
on tv called market warriors or

1198
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:08,720
something like that i was cast for that

1199
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:09,599
show

1200
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:11,040
and i went through the screen tests and

1201
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:12,800
everything and and and

1202
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:15,359
so i sat well actually through internet

1203
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:16,960
sat and talked with

1204
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:20,000
um like with a bunch of people about

1205
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:23,040
the theory of their show and i said to

1206
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,359
them

1207
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:24,880
i said you know that's not really that

1208
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:27,839
ethical to to do that i forget exactly

1209
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:29,359
what it was but they were going to have

1210
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:32,000
like an appraiser buy something for what

1211
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:33,280
he appraised it at

1212
00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:34,400
and then he was going to put in an

1213
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:35,440
auction they were going to see how it

1214
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,640
did and

1215
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:38,640
i said that's not really ethical and

1216
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,920
next thing you know

1217
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:42,560
i was out yeah you know yeah they don't

1218
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,839
want somebody there that's going to make

1219
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:45,119
a problem because they have to put a

1220
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:46,079
product out

1221
00:41:49,349 --> 00:41:47,520
yeah you know you you can't have

1222
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:49,359
dissension when you're trying to do a

1223
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:50,640
production everybody has to work

1224
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:51,440
together

1225
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:53,760
and that's just a fact of putting

1226
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:55,359
together a tv show or a movie or

1227
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:56,079
whatever

1228
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:58,480
and so i understand that but it also

1229
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:00,319
keeps people like you and i out of those

1230
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:03,520
things because um

1231
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,270
um and going back i try to yeah yeah

1232
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:13,680
going back to richard doty he would not

1233
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:15,440
we wouldn't even know his name it wasn't

1234
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:16,800
for paul benowitz

1235
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:19,040
showing those films to the air base

1236
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:20,480
right i mean we would never

1237
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:22,000
he never would have come to light in any

1238
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:23,680
type of way no

1239
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:25,280
when i said i wasn't a fan i wasn't a

1240
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:26,800
fan of what he did

1241
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:29,040
right i mean i knew him as a person and

1242
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:30,000
i got along with him

1243
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,440
fine but um

1244
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,280
it's uh what he did was unethical and

1245
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,280
he's actually admitted it um

1246
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:39,359
i he i don't know if he'd do it again he

1247
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:40,640
says he wouldn't

1248
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:44,400
um but uh he

1249
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:47,520
yeah uh he was in air force office of

1250
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:49,280
special investigations

1251
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:51,440
and he happened to be assigned to this

1252
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:52,319
to this uh

1253
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:55,920
issue with paul benowitz and

1254
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:57,920
basically to keep basically befriend him

1255
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:59,280
and keep an eye on him

1256
00:43:02,309 --> 00:43:00,720
that's another thing that people don't

1257
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:02,319
know i mean uh some people from

1258
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:03,839
intelligence agencies

1259
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:06,880
they actively court you as a friend and

1260
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:08,400
they will do everything you know have

1261
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:09,119
dinner with you

1262
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:11,200
and hang out and do all this stuff but

1263
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:12,640
they've got their own agenda

1264
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:14,880
and you kind of have to realize that and

1265
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:16,079
at that point you know paul didn't

1266
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,760
realize that at all

1267
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:19,599
there was no way he could have he said

1268
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:21,200
oh boy somebody from the air force is

1269
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:22,720
interested in what i'm doing and that i

1270
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:23,920
think there's some kind of invasion

1271
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:25,680
coming or whatever

1272
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:29,359
and you know that that just got worse

1273
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:29,920
and worse

1274
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:33,280
as he got more and more interested in

1275
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:34,160
his own

1276
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:37,440
ideas theories and i will say delusions

1277
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,440
and those were either not questioned or

1278
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,680
encouraged by the intelligence community

1279
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:43,280
to keep them away from whatever was

1280
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:45,040
going on at the base at

1281
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:48,400
kirtland k-i-r-t-l-a-n-d

1282
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:49,680
and and for those of you who are

1283
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:52,160
interested it's a long story

1284
00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:54,880
and uh we're not gonna really uh get

1285
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:56,720
into that tonight but the paul bennowitz

1286
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:57,280
case

1287
00:44:01,670 --> 00:44:00,000
if you're new to the ufo topic it's

1288
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:01,680
really and greg has a great book

1289
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:04,240
uh project beta out on that and uh so

1290
00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:05,040
does my friend

1291
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:08,160
um uh chris lambright um yeah we have

1292
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:09,920
disagreements but i respect his

1293
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:11,040
disagreements he's a really good

1294
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:11,920
researcher

1295
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:15,119
yeah but um it's really a very very

1296
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,960
interesting case and it's a sad case

1297
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:17,920
because

1298
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:20,560
um and it's where dulce came from and

1299
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:21,440
dulce

1300
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:25,920
from was just to steer

1301
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:28,880
paul bennowitz away from um from what he

1302
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:29,520
was doing

1303
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:32,480
and that is probably filming whatever it

1304
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:33,599
was over there

1305
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:36,640
at kirkland air force base yeah

1306
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:39,760
um actually there was something at dulce

1307
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:40,319
but

1308
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,640
who knows what it was and it did it was

1309
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:44,240
something probably that was

1310
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:46,240
dug into the mountain who knows what it

1311
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:48,079
was maybe it was an old nuclear test

1312
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,640
site

1313
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:50,400
the the most fantastical thing i've

1314
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:52,079
heard besides it was underground alien

1315
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,720
base

1316
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:54,560
is that it was used for um it was an

1317
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:57,680
underground base for testing aircraft

1318
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:59,680
like james bond you know like a door

1319
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:01,280
would open up and planes and things

1320
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:02,000
would fly out

1321
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,599
yeah i mean i've heard those i didn't

1322
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:05,359
know if that was even

1323
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:06,800
well there's enough people that live

1324
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:09,200
around there that have seen those things

1325
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:11,200
besides paul benowitz even in the white

1326
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:13,280
house too there's the vans they always

1327
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:14,400
talk about

1328
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:18,079
um yeah i remember talking way back in

1329
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:20,720
this show when this show first began

1330
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:22,480
year you know nine

1331
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,760
almost ten years ago now um where

1332
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:27,599
i spoke with bill burns and he told me

1333
00:45:32,790 --> 00:45:29,839
that that was the strangest place he

1334
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,800
ever he was in the ufo hunters and he

1335
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:34,160
said that was the strangest place he'd

1336
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:35,359
ever been

1337
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:37,440
and there was a calf that looked half

1338
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:38,640
human

1339
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,680
do you did you ever see i heard about

1340
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:43,599
that yeah

1341
00:45:47,829 --> 00:45:46,079
oh i remember i saw pictures of that

1342
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:47,839
yeah actually gabe valdez showed me

1343
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:49,040
pictures of that i don't know where he

1344
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,560
got the pictures i can't remember gabe

1345
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:52,319
valdez was a highway patrolman

1346
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,280
a new mexico state police um based in

1347
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,880
dulce he was one of the first people to

1348
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:58,480
investigate the cattle mutilation thing

1349
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,240
in the late 70s and

1350
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,400
uh he became a pretty good friend of

1351
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:04,560
mine he died about

1352
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:05,760
probably i guess about eight or nine

1353
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:08,560
years ago but yeah he had some pictures

1354
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:09,599
of this um

1355
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,560
strange deformed cow that looked like it

1356
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:14,240
had almost like a human face but the you

1357
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:15,119
know that picture

1358
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:16,160
i don't know where he told me that

1359
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:17,760
picture came from it could have come

1360
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:19,520
from anywhere i mean there's there's

1361
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:22,400
that happens occasionally like goats and

1362
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,440
sheep and then

1363
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:25,839
cows are born with these weird deformed

1364
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:27,200
faces that look almost

1365
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,000
that look kind of human if you you know

1366
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:31,680
if you stretch the definition of human a

1367
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:32,640
little bit

1368
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:34,400
but yeah i mean i think the idea was

1369
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,839
that there was some sort of genetic

1370
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:37,440
testing going on and that was part of

1371
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:39,280
the cattle mutilation thing

1372
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:41,440
and that um that was what the cover-up

1373
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:42,480
was about

1374
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:44,560
i do not know i think it's more likely

1375
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:47,040
than aliens stealing cattle

1376
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:49,599
but as with any of these other things if

1377
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:51,440
you come up with an explanation

1378
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:53,680
you have to ignore large swaths of the

1379
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:54,720
evidence

1380
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:57,760
and so you know it's a genetic yeah it's

1381
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:58,480
a genetic

1382
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:00,800
experiment well what about the lights

1383
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:02,640
people see and what about

1384
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:04,480
sightings of things being floated up and

1385
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:05,680
what what about

1386
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:09,359
um what i what about organs removed with

1387
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:11,119
no incision it's like you know this

1388
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:12,480
doesn't

1389
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:17,040
idea that people have the

1390
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:19,040
alien idea doesn't work in every case

1391
00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:20,319
the cat the

1392
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:23,200
the testing biological testing thing or

1393
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:25,599
monitoring doesn't work in every case

1394
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:28,960
um so you know the occult you know the

1395
00:47:33,829 --> 00:47:29,520
the uh

1396
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:33,839
doesn't work in every case

1397
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:35,920
or most of them actually so there's no

1398
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:37,599
one explanation that makes

1399
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,200
total sense for all of this just like

1400
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:41,280
ufos or bigfoot or any a lot of these

1401
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:43,359
things even even ghosts

1402
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:46,480
yeah yeah um this is uh going back

1403
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:48,880
to what we were talking about earlier uh

1404
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:50,400
mary grace wants to know were you

1405
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:52,400
disappointed in the way

1406
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,599
unidentified portrayed you

1407
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:57,839
i was pleasantly surprised that i was

1408
00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:59,599
okay with it

1409
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,000
i wasn't even slightly unhappy i wasn't

1410
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:03,839
like oh boy this is wonderful i just

1411
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:04,319
thought

1412
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,839
wow they're pretty fair they didn't

1413
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:07,599
really like make me look like a crazy or

1414
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:09,520
an idiot or anything like that so

1415
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:12,559
i was actually kind of you know

1416
00:48:16,549 --> 00:48:14,960
i was i was okay with it i i you know

1417
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:16,559
like i said i wasn't disappointed i

1418
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:17,599
wasn't overjoyed

1419
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,520
the reason i was kind of i was happy it

1420
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:21,359
was kind of like ah they didn't screw it

1421
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:22,400
up you know

1422
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:24,319
so that that's kind of how i felt about

1423
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:25,440
it um

1424
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:27,599
my my participation in the show was was

1425
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:28,480
fine by me i

1426
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:30,240
i had no you know sometimes you you know

1427
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:31,760
martin you might know you'll see

1428
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:32,880
something you're in and you get this

1429
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,319
feeling and you pity your stomach like

1430
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,400
oh god why did i do that

1431
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:38,160
i didn't get that with unidentified

1432
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:39,599
luckily ah

1433
00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:41,359
wow i wonder if there's going to be

1434
00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:42,880
another season of that

1435
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:46,240
i haven't heard why i suspect not since

1436
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:52,870
one of the stars of the show left you

1437
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:54,240
know so right

1438
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,319
yeah yeah that kind of could kill that a

1439
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:58,319
little bit um going back to what we're

1440
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,920
talking about earlier in the memory

1441
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:01,440
thing belinda wants to know is there a

1442
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:02,880
relation between

1443
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:05,119
light spectrum and our memory some

1444
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,880
things can be seen by camera

1445
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:08,640
and not by the naked eye which is so

1446
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:10,800
true yeah

1447
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,480
um there might be

1448
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:16,559
but i think our memory can only deal

1449
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:18,720
with what was available to our senses at

1450
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,920
the time

1451
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,440
yeah i mean that there's a whole thing

1452
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,280
you know people have taken infrared

1453
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:25,520
and ultraviolet pictures um trevor

1454
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:27,359
constable did this in the 50s he wrote a

1455
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:29,200
book called they live in the sky

1456
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:31,920
and he was taking pictures of um the sky

1457
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:33,119
and they'd see these things that looked

1458
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:33,599
like

1459
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,480
blobs or amoeba or something which might

1460
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,880
have oh yes i remember that yeah yeah

1461
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:40,160
problem with the film but he was doing

1462
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:42,000
that with infrared film and other things

1463
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:44,079
have shown up on infrared films so

1464
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:46,640
i think the relationship between a light

1465
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:47,839
spectrum and memory

1466
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:50,160
there really isn't anyone except that if

1467
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:51,920
it's in the visible spectrum we can see

1468
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:52,880
it

1469
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:59,040
yeah you know like i said if if you your

1470
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:00,800
memory and going back to something

1471
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:03,359
when it's happening might be vastly

1472
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:04,160
different

1473
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:06,000
especially with something as unfamiliar

1474
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:08,000
as a ufo sighting if you've you know

1475
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:09,200
if it's the first time it's ever

1476
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:10,559
happened to you well maybe not even the

1477
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:11,440
first time but

1478
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:13,440
it's just not something you expect and

1479
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:15,200
so your memory is going to consolidate

1480
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:17,520
into something that works for you

1481
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,680
even if it's absolutely horribly you

1482
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:21,520
know a terrible experience or a

1483
00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:24,079
frightening experience

1484
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,520
i think i said somewhere in my essay

1485
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,359
about this i wrote in reframing the

1486
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:29,599
debate ufos are framing the debate

1487
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:32,559
you know it you know whatever it is your

1488
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,040
mind

1489
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:35,680
has to have some placeholder for it so

1490
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:36,640
it's going to start

1491
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:38,880
searching everything to figure out what

1492
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:41,040
can i what box can i drop this in so it

1493
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:42,480
can be useful to me

1494
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:44,000
and you might even be you know that

1495
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:46,400
might even include dream logic

1496
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,079
because at least dreams are in your in

1497
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:50,880
your memory so

1498
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:53,440
you know it like i said it it will be

1499
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:55,440
filed in the way that is most useful to

1500
00:51:01,349 --> 00:50:56,079
you

1501
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:01,359
unless whoever it was can elaborate i

1502
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:02,720
don't i think we're just dealing with

1503
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:04,480
the visible light spectrum for

1504
00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:08,800
uh a witness yeah yeah um

1505
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:12,640
uh last week i had uh an audio clip-on

1506
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:13,200
of seth

1507
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,839
shawstak who was on npr radio and he was

1508
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:16,720
talking about

1509
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:19,839
uh the flr cameras uh probably it was an

1510
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:20,800
issue with that

1511
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:22,960
and uh uh you know i don't know if they

1512
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:24,160
use a different spectrum i don't know

1513
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,440
how that works

1514
00:51:28,470 --> 00:51:27,760
but infrared forward-looking infrared

1515
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:28,480
f-l-i

1516
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:31,119
yeah but boy i'll tell you did i ever

1517
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:32,559
get email

1518
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:35,440
i got so many emails not about the great

1519
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:36,000
show i had

1520
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:39,119
with uh uh mark rudiger and

1521
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:42,000
dave marlar together but about seth

1522
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,200
shawstak that one

1523
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:45,760
three-minute clip i played on my show

1524
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:48,480
had so many emails of people upset at

1525
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:51,760
seth shawstack for saying

1526
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:55,200
you know writing off the videos um

1527
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:58,160
that the navy released last year as all

1528
00:52:02,069 --> 00:52:00,000
you know probably a camera

1529
00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:02,079
you know reflection i think that's what

1530
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,280
he called them

1531
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:05,920
and boy that got people upset but it is

1532
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:07,520
an interesting thing when you're talking

1533
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:09,119
about different specs it might be

1534
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:11,680
but yeah but i don't think you can't

1535
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:12,240
dismiss

1536
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:14,240
all of it just by making this wide

1537
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,359
sweeping statement

1538
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:17,440
oh it's all reflections really do you

1539
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:19,280
know how infrared cameras work

1540
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:20,880
can you give us examples of the where

1541
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:22,800
this has shown up before and look like a

1542
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:23,680
ufo

1543
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:26,240
no he can't i'm sure he can't plus all

1544
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:27,920
the other data that goes with those

1545
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:30,720
or yeah and and the testimony and all

1546
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:31,680
that it's like

1547
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:33,040
the other thing is i don't care about

1548
00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:35,119
videos and film anymore it proves

1549
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:35,839
nothing

1550
00:52:38,740 --> 00:52:37,280
it proves that there's something going

1551
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:38,750
on we know that

1552
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:40,800
[Laughter]

1553
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,640
we know there's something going on what

1554
00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:44,720
about 800 more

1555
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:47,920
a really good uh video or

1556
00:52:52,150 --> 00:52:50,800
a really clear good picture like that

1557
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:52,160
polaroid that was

1558
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:55,119
you know australian polaroid way back of

1559
00:52:58,950 --> 00:52:56,160
that

1560
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,960
saucer the guy took in his garden yeah

1561
00:53:01,670 --> 00:53:00,400
that would be wonderful if it changed

1562
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:01,680
everybody's mind that needs to be

1563
00:53:03,910 --> 00:53:02,079
changed

1564
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:03,920
it hasn't so apparently it doesn't make

1565
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:06,000
any difference yeah you know what i mean

1566
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:07,119
if you already think there's something

1567
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:09,040
going on pictures don't you know that's

1568
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:09,680
wonderful

1569
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:13,040
the only thing i think the only reason

1570
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:15,359
people are interested in pictures is

1571
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:16,960
skeptics use them to say that there's

1572
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:18,720
nothing going on and believers use it to

1573
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:19,520
say

1574
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:20,800
what's wrong with you of course there's

1575
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:23,040
something going on it's like well of

1576
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:24,480
course you're gonna you know of course

1577
00:53:27,829 --> 00:53:26,160
that's what they're gonna use them for

1578
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:27,839
the the use they could have the

1579
00:53:31,990 --> 00:53:29,200
usefulness is

1580
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:32,000
if we look at these photos examine them

1581
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:34,000
and hopefully have you know like like

1582
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:36,960
chris o'brien's um uh san luis valley

1583
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:38,160
project we have them and

1584
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:40,240
take these things with infrared in a

1585
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:41,200
different spectrum

1586
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:43,359
and see what might be going on we might

1587
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:45,200
get some more information about

1588
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:47,440
what it is that the camera picked up

1589
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:48,640
that would be interesting

1590
00:53:53,430 --> 00:53:52,240
but as far as you know this proves that

1591
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:53,440
there's ufos

1592
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:56,559
we don't need that anymore there are

1593
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:58,720
unidentifieds in the sky that's just

1594
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:01,839
it that it happens i don't know what

1595
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:02,640
they are

1596
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:04,319
but i do know they're a real thing and i

1597
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:05,680
do know people see

1598
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:07,440
at least a real thing as we experience

1599
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:08,880
it and

1600
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:12,160
that that photos and video

1601
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:14,640
really prove nothing they they like i

1602
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:15,440
said they prove

1603
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,520
they prove they prove that either

1604
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:18,720
something's wrong with the camera to a

1605
00:54:23,349 --> 00:54:20,960
skeptic or oh my god this is a this is a

1606
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:23,359
picture of a ufo from another planet to

1607
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:25,599
a lot of people that believe in it so

1608
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:27,200
you know to me it's a it's almost a

1609
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:33,349
i think it definitely has to uh

1610
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:36,480
a good a good picture a good video has

1611
00:54:39,430 --> 00:54:37,359
to accompany

1612
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:39,440
really good testimony that i mean that's

1613
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:41,680
my my thought about it to

1614
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:44,160
to have something really solidly looked

1615
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:44,720
into

1616
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:46,480
looks like we're going to break here in

1617
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:47,839
just about a minute

1618
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:50,640
but um someone in chat had a quick

1619
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:52,079
comment but i believe you spoke

1620
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:54,720
on this earlier didn't you have you had

1621
00:54:57,109 --> 00:54:56,640
any other paranormal experiences in your

1622
00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:57,119
life

1623
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:58,880
didn't you already talk about that you

1624
00:55:03,750 --> 00:55:00,799
went on a ghost

1625
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:03,760
situation but i guess ghost hunt i had a

1626
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:06,240
i had a glass explode in my hand once

1627
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:10,000
just holding it which was really weird

1628
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:11,920
which i found out if you've got a

1629
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:14,160
tempered glass and it's under tension

1630
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:16,240
sometimes they will just shatter but

1631
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:17,920
this one there was an audible pop

1632
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:20,960
and the glass it was like somebody had a

1633
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:23,200
lit off a firecracker inside the glass

1634
00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:25,760
in my hand

1635
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:27,520
pow and play and there were pieces of

1636
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:29,760
glass stuck to my hand

1637
00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:31,440
not not not cutting my hand but like

1638
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:32,720
with safety glass so these little

1639
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:34,160
squares of glass were all stuck to my

1640
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,960
hand i was

1641
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:36,720
kind of standing there and pieces ended

1642
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:38,559
up 15 20 feet away down

1643
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:40,880
down down the hall in this kitchen i was

1644
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:41,760
standing in

1645
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:43,359
so you know it was right before i

1646
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:45,040
interviewed dean raiden actually

1647
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:46,720
we can talk about it when we come back

1648
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:48,400
yeah all right so we're going to go into

1649
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:49,520
break and for those

1650
00:55:52,950 --> 00:55:51,520
you lucky people in youtube i got a

1651
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:52,960
great vintage clip

1652
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:54,960
you're going to see so hang in there

1653
00:55:59,589 --> 00:55:57,280
over at kgr a radio we'll be right back

1654
00:56:02,230 --> 00:55:59,599
right after these messages

1655
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:02,240
all right uh welcome back um this is

1656
00:56:08,309 --> 00:56:04,240
martin willis and my guest tonight

1657
00:56:10,789 --> 00:56:08,319
is greg bishop and uh greg welcome back

1658
00:56:11,670 --> 00:56:10,799
uh before we were going to continue

1659
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:11,680
talking

1660
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:14,880
uh about the topic we were

1661
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:17,760
ended at the uh you were about ready to

1662
00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:19,040
interview someone when that

1663
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,799
beaker or whatever it was a tempered

1664
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:22,960
glass exploded in your hand and you said

1665
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:25,839
you wanted to continue that

1666
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:28,640
yeah well that and uh i guess the ghost

1667
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,000
sending thing yeah i was at my

1668
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:32,000
friend's house one of the co-founders of

1669
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:34,880
my magazine our magazine excluded middle

1670
00:56:39,990 --> 00:56:38,480
in 95 or six something like that

1671
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:40,000
whenever um

1672
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:41,680
what was dean raiden's first book the

1673
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:44,400
conscious universe when that came out um

1674
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:46,000
i said i got to talk to this guy so i

1675
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:47,920
called him up or at least emailed him or

1676
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:49,359
something he said yeah come out to vegas

1677
00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:50,160
and interview me

1678
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:51,520
so the way out there stopped at my

1679
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:53,520
friend's place and we're having beer

1680
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:55,200
and i finished the beer and i was

1681
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:57,040
washing it in the sink and people say oh

1682
00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:58,079
well it was hot water

1683
00:57:01,589 --> 00:56:59,440
and it made the glass it's like no i

1684
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:01,599
wear instant cold water it's a cold

1685
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:03,599
glass i rinsed in cold water

1686
00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:05,920
um i rinsed it out and as i took it away

1687
00:57:08,789 --> 00:57:07,359
from the water dumped the water out and

1688
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:08,799
i was holding the glass i heard this

1689
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,640
audible pop and i felt a

1690
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:13,359
like a little concussion pressure in my

1691
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:15,040
hand and then all the pieces of glass

1692
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:16,240
went flying

1693
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:18,880
and i told raiden about this and he said

1694
00:57:21,430 --> 00:57:20,079
well what's going on

1695
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:21,440
you know in your life right now and i

1696
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:24,160
said well i'm probably heading toward

1697
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:26,079
i'm actually heading towards a divorce

1698
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:27,839
and other few other things he goes well

1699
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:29,520
maybe that's just an outward expression

1700
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:30,079
of your

1701
00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:33,359
inner turmoil i said yeah maybe it is

1702
00:57:37,990 --> 00:57:36,640
um and the other thing that happened was

1703
00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:38,000
i was on a

1704
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:40,480
i went to speak at the east coast pera

1705
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:41,200
conference

1706
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:43,760
in liverpool nova scotia i was invited

1707
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,680
by paul kelly

1708
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:48,000
and i went there twice i think at least

1709
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:49,680
twice maybe three times but i spoke

1710
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:50,640
there twice

1711
00:57:54,230 --> 00:57:52,319
and both times i went on ghost hunts

1712
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:54,240
with them and one of them was at an old

1713
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:55,200
theater

1714
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:56,799
where a lot of stuff had happened an old

1715
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:58,319
live theater we know with the stage and

1716
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:59,839
the whole bit

1717
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:01,520
nothing went on there as far as i could

1718
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:02,960
tell except somebody that was standing

1719
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,960
behind me said they saw a shadow go by

1720
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:06,400
in the in the room upstairs

1721
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:07,680
and there was nobody in the building

1722
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:10,240
except us and that door was locked

1723
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:13,680
so i didn't see the shadow

1724
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:16,960
the next time we went to a historical

1725
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:18,160
museum

1726
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:20,000
for the area it was like in this

1727
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:23,440
probably 200 250 year old house

1728
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:26,240
um part of it was in this house and we

1729
00:58:29,270 --> 00:58:28,000
used a ghost box and we heard some you

1730
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:29,280
know possibly some

1731
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:31,760
talking in it that like micah hanks was

1732
00:58:34,549 --> 00:58:33,119
there and paul said

1733
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:34,559
who wants who would like you know who

1734
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:36,000
would you like to speak to and he

1735
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:38,000
started naming names

1736
00:58:41,349 --> 00:58:39,440
and after he said micah and you know

1737
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:41,359
what a ghost box does it just tunes into

1738
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:43,359
radio frequencies or in between radio

1739
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:44,400
stations

1740
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,480
so all you hear is like snippets of talk

1741
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:48,480
which you can make anything you want out

1742
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:48,960
of

1743
00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:53,200
all sitting there he's

1744
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,520
he's named all these names i think ryan

1745
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:57,359
sprague was there and micah hanks and i

1746
00:59:02,470 --> 00:58:58,960
and aaron gullius

1747
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:02,480
and um everybody in the room distinctly

1748
00:59:04,690 --> 00:59:03,440
heard the radio say

1749
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,700
micah

1750
00:59:09,670 --> 00:59:06,480
[Laughter]

1751
00:59:11,910 --> 00:59:09,680
which was pretty funny um that is

1752
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:11,920
uh i mean it could have been part of

1753
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:13,680
some other word or whatever but anyway i

1754
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:15,200
mean the chances of somebody actually

1755
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:16,319
saying something that sounded like

1756
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,319
somebody's name were pretty slim

1757
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:20,319
could happen but that wasn't the

1758
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:21,680
impressive thing the impressive thing is

1759
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:23,440
we went to another room and they had

1760
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:23,760
this

1761
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:27,119
um that two things happen

1762
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:30,240
two or three we went to this room and

1763
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:32,319
it was a room with a lot of old costumes

1764
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:34,559
not costumes but clothes from the time

1765
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:37,280
and artifacts uh from that they had

1766
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:38,400
found in the area

1767
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:43,040
in glass cases and stuff and

1768
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:46,480
somebody the paul's cameraman that it

1769
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:48,400
on his ghost hunting show said oh

1770
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:49,920
there's a cold spot here and he'd gone

1771
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:51,200
through hundreds of them so he's just

1772
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:52,640
like you know it wasn't a big deal to

1773
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,400
him oh there's a cold spot here

1774
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:56,240
and i thought yeah right and i walked

1775
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:57,599
behind him

1776
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:59,280
and it felt like i walked through a wall

1777
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:01,119
of air conditioning and it was warm in

1778
01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:02,799
the building it was probably what

1779
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:04,960
80 degrees in the middle of the summer

1780
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:07,119
in nova scotia in canada

1781
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:09,040
in the evening it felt like 80 degrees

1782
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:10,160
in that building

1783
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:11,680
but it was almost like i want to stay

1784
01:00:14,150 --> 01:00:13,200
here because it's nice and cool here but

1785
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:14,160
it was basically like

1786
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:18,160
an area very specifically defined

1787
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:20,400
where i walked and suddenly bang it was

1788
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:21,520
cold

1789
01:00:26,069 --> 01:00:24,000
wow and then i walked another foot and

1790
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:26,079
bang it was warm again

1791
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:27,359
and then i tried to go back through it

1792
01:00:31,109 --> 01:00:28,880
and apparently it was following the guy

1793
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:31,119
or whatever but i distinctly felt that

1794
01:00:36,069 --> 01:00:34,160
that cold spot um and the other thing

1795
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:36,079
was i came back in the room and

1796
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:38,400
ryan and paul were sitting and looking

1797
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:40,160
at this thing called a rem pod which is

1798
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:40,960
this little

1799
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:42,640
machine that's about that big around and

1800
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:44,000
about this tall

1801
01:00:52,309 --> 01:00:47,760
and it's got temperature pressure

1802
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:52,319
electromagnetic magnetic field uh uh

1803
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:54,960
instrumentation or detection in it so if

1804
01:00:57,829 --> 01:00:56,160
it gets colder a little

1805
01:00:59,670 --> 01:00:57,839
little red a little blue light goes on

1806
01:01:00,630 --> 01:00:59,680
to show look blue led comes on to show

1807
01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:00,640
you that the temperature is

1808
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:02,400
it's detecting the temperatures dropping

1809
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:04,000
if it's getting warmer a red light will

1810
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:05,680
come on and they'll just blink on

1811
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:08,880
and stop or you know if it

1812
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:11,359
if it uh picks up a magnetic field

1813
01:01:14,069 --> 01:01:13,359
another you know like a speaker comes on

1814
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:14,079
or whatever

1815
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:15,359
but anyway and it's got a little mic

1816
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:16,960
it's got a little uh antenna on it so i

1817
01:01:21,829 --> 01:01:19,119
could pick up radio frequencies

1818
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:21,839
anyway i walk in and paul and ryan are

1819
01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:23,440
just sitting on the floor looking at the

1820
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:25,119
thing

1821
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:27,040
and they i say what's up and they said i

1822
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:28,480
think they said they say i think mac

1823
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:30,160
tony's is here our friend mac

1824
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:31,760
that paul and i were pretty good friends

1825
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:33,200
with he

1826
01:01:38,230 --> 01:01:37,119
passed away at the age of like 31 or two

1827
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:38,240
he wrote a book called the crypto

1828
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:41,200
terrestrials which is uh you know

1829
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:43,599
it's mind-blowingly great and i was

1830
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:45,119
happy to have known him

1831
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:47,760
anyway paul said i think we have mac

1832
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:48,559
here and i said

1833
01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:51,040
how do you know that and he said well

1834
01:01:55,829 --> 01:01:52,160
watch

1835
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:55,839
and he said um he had this

1836
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:58,000
this uh code set up like you know one

1837
01:02:02,150 --> 01:01:59,200
for yes two for no

1838
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:02,160
thing and he says if the if this is mac

1839
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:03,760
and not somebody messing with me then

1840
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:04,799
can you and the thing

1841
01:02:09,270 --> 01:02:06,880
blinked once the the blue light came on

1842
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,280
and blinked once and went off

1843
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:11,200
and then he asked more questions and the

1844
01:02:14,710 --> 01:02:13,119
blue light would blink once or twice

1845
01:02:16,150 --> 01:02:14,720
and i said well maybe the temperature's

1846
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:16,160
changed now he said turn it off and turn

1847
01:02:19,109 --> 01:02:17,520
it back on again maybe there's something

1848
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:19,119
wrong with it so he did that

1849
01:02:22,309 --> 01:02:20,640
and he kept doing the same thing it

1850
01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:22,319
would only react when he asked a

1851
01:02:24,549 --> 01:02:23,119
question

1852
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:24,559
the rest of the time it just sat there

1853
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:26,400
doing nothing

1854
01:02:31,029 --> 01:02:29,280
um and this went on for a while yeah

1855
01:02:33,829 --> 01:02:31,039
this went on for a while

1856
01:02:35,589 --> 01:02:33,839
and then we thought well let's you know

1857
01:02:37,190 --> 01:02:35,599
let's go upstairs

1858
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:37,200
and so we went up into the attic where

1859
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:38,799
they stored everything which they called

1860
01:02:42,390 --> 01:02:40,799
the void i don't know why

1861
01:02:44,069 --> 01:02:42,400
you get up there and it's pitch black if

1862
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:44,079
they turn the lights off but we went

1863
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:45,599
upstairs to this attic where there was

1864
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:46,079
storage

1865
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:47,760
and there were mannequins there like

1866
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:49,520
mannequins uh dress forms with like

1867
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:50,559
where the heck with the

1868
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:53,520
the necks cut off that's just flat um

1869
01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:55,280
pretty freaky looking

1870
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:56,480
yeah i mean it was just you know they

1871
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:58,000
just look like there's no arms or

1872
01:03:03,190 --> 01:02:59,680
anything it's just like this torso

1873
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:03,200
that you can put clothes on um

1874
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:05,520
and strangely enough mac had this weird

1875
01:03:09,990 --> 01:03:06,960
mannequin fetish

1876
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:10,000
so we thought it'd be funny yeah he like

1877
01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:11,760
used to put pictures of mannequins up on

1878
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:12,480
his website

1879
01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:14,400
which was called post-human blues

1880
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:16,000
strangely and the thing

1881
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:18,400
was the lightweight yeah it was called

1882
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:19,520
post-human blues

1883
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:21,119
and the light that was going on on the

1884
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:22,960
rem pod was blue it was it's getting

1885
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:23,920
colder like

1886
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:26,079
so his cameraman said let's try

1887
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:27,039
something he took the

1888
01:03:30,549 --> 01:03:29,119
the little rem pod thing and he put it

1889
01:03:32,390 --> 01:03:30,559
on top like where the

1890
01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:32,400
mannequin's head the the neck was cut

1891
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:33,839
off there's a flat spot

1892
01:03:36,950 --> 01:03:35,599
so he put the rem pod on it looked

1893
01:03:37,510 --> 01:03:36,960
basically like this figure with this

1894
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:37,520
weird

1895
01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:40,240
robot robot head with a mic with an

1896
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:41,440
antenna coming off of it

1897
01:03:45,910 --> 01:03:42,960
as soon as he put it on the manic and

1898
01:03:49,270 --> 01:03:47,670
and he said that's weird and he took it

1899
01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:49,280
off and the blue light went off

1900
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:50,640
he put it back on and the blue light

1901
01:03:54,789 --> 01:03:53,119
went on again and the temperature had

1902
01:03:57,510 --> 01:03:54,799
not changed it was hot in that

1903
01:03:59,029 --> 01:03:57,520
in that attic yeah how about um and i

1904
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:59,039
said turn it off again

1905
01:04:02,549 --> 01:04:00,960
and reset it so he did you turn it back

1906
01:04:03,670 --> 01:04:02,559
on again it went through its little

1907
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:03,680
thing beep beep beep

1908
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:05,280
ready to go he put it on top of the

1909
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:08,000
mannequin blue light comes on again

1910
01:04:12,870 --> 01:04:11,520
wow that's and it's and the only time it

1911
01:04:14,230 --> 01:04:12,880
was on it was when it was sitting on

1912
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:14,240
that mannequin and then when we went

1913
01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:15,680
downstairs

1914
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:16,960
what's supposed to happen is when the

1915
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:18,400
temperature is changing if it's getting

1916
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:18,960
colder

1917
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:20,880
the blue light will go on and it'll beep

1918
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:22,400
or if it's getting warmer the red light

1919
01:04:25,910 --> 01:04:23,680
will go on and it'll be

1920
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:25,920
as we went back downstairs nothing was

1921
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:27,760
happening although he kept it on

1922
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:31,039
um as soon as we got back as we went

1923
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:32,880
downstairs and it was getting colder

1924
01:04:36,549 --> 01:04:34,480
blue light blinked and it went beep like

1925
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:36,559
it was supposed to so apparently it was

1926
01:04:39,190 --> 01:04:37,119
working

1927
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:39,200
but it did all these other weird things

1928
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,960
while we were

1929
01:04:44,630 --> 01:04:42,480
messing with it the other thing that

1930
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:44,640
happened there is um

1931
01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:46,640
they were using the there was a big

1932
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:48,720
group of people in that same room using

1933
01:05:07,270 --> 01:04:49,440
a

1934
01:05:08,950 --> 01:05:07,280
crying would keep showing up on

1935
01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:08,960
how long do you have a child crying on a

1936
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:10,319
radio show

1937
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:12,240
because it went on for i don't know

1938
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:13,920
about a minute or more

1939
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:15,359
we just kept hearing once in a while

1940
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,839
this child's crying voice

1941
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:19,760
diaper commercial or something maybe

1942
01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:21,520
yeah a minute long diaper commercial

1943
01:05:26,789 --> 01:05:23,520
with a baby crying for the entire thing

1944
01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:26,799
so or a child um but this woman said

1945
01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:29,280
something just went by me just now

1946
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:30,880
because she said she felt something go

1947
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:32,400
by and

1948
01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:35,039
psychosomatically or whatever i felt a

1949
01:05:39,270 --> 01:05:36,960
tingly tingling sensation

1950
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:39,280
start in the heels of my feet and go up

1951
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:40,960
the backs of my legs and my back and

1952
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:42,640
then off the top of my head it was a

1953
01:05:46,789 --> 01:05:44,880
really weird feeling

1954
01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:46,799
as she said that thing just went by me i

1955
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:48,480
felt that right as somebody across from

1956
01:05:51,270 --> 01:05:49,200
me said that

1957
01:05:53,349 --> 01:05:51,280
they felt something to which that can be

1958
01:05:56,230 --> 01:05:53,359
put down to some sort of you know

1959
01:05:58,069 --> 01:05:56,240
um you know suggestion i suppose but it

1960
01:05:59,510 --> 01:05:58,079
was a very weird feeling

1961
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:59,520
i've never felt anything like that

1962
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:01,520
before since oh

1963
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:05,599
wow um some of the uh equipment they use

1964
01:06:09,029 --> 01:06:07,440
like is it the magnometer or something

1965
01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:09,039
like that that

1966
01:06:15,270 --> 01:06:12,559
magnetometer i suppose they use

1967
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:15,280
um you know emf you know electro

1968
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:17,039
electromagnetic fields

1969
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:19,920
um that's one um temperature and

1970
01:06:24,230 --> 01:06:21,119
pressure

1971
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:24,240
and uh i think that's all of them but a

1972
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:24,799
lot of them

1973
01:06:28,390 --> 01:06:28,000
i mean well i've heard that it's kind of

1974
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:28,400
like

1975
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:32,319
it not not anything that's really

1976
01:06:35,990 --> 01:06:32,960
accurate

1977
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,000
on detecting i can't remember what it is

1978
01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:38,400
i thought it was the magnetrometer as

1979
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:39,200
you said

1980
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:41,520
uh and that i bring that up only because

1981
01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:43,440
i'm thinking like for instance

1982
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:45,599
um at the skinwalker rant they did a lot

1983
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:47,200
of work

1984
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:50,240
uh using that and the episodes on again

1985
01:06:55,109 --> 01:06:52,319
on the history channel last year

1986
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:55,119
uh they used that over and over again to

1987
01:06:58,390 --> 01:06:56,160
come up with a case

1988
01:07:00,230 --> 01:06:58,400
of something and i've heard you know

1989
01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:00,240
some of the science background say

1990
01:07:05,190 --> 01:07:02,480
it's kind of bs you know and i don't

1991
01:07:06,789 --> 01:07:05,200
know much about all that stuff but

1992
01:07:08,069 --> 01:07:06,799
i don't know enough about it to give you

1993
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:08,079
a really good opinion where i could

1994
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:09,200
sound like i knew what it's talking

1995
01:07:11,589 --> 01:07:10,880
about if i did i'd just be mansplaining

1996
01:07:14,230 --> 01:07:11,599
something

1997
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:14,240
yeah i don't i don't know exactly what

1998
01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:15,359
i'm talking about

1999
01:07:19,430 --> 01:07:18,799
um just that the paranormal field is so

2000
01:07:21,349 --> 01:07:19,440
full of

2001
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:21,359
everything from really smart people who

2002
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:22,799
know what they're doing to complete

2003
01:07:24,870 --> 01:07:24,319
morons that have no idea what they're

2004
01:07:26,710 --> 01:07:24,880
doing

2005
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:26,720
and everything in between but that's

2006
01:07:30,549 --> 01:07:28,240
just like anything else

2007
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:30,559
yeah so you know and the smartest people

2008
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:32,000
can do the weirdest

2009
01:07:38,549 --> 01:07:35,039
seemingly dumbest things um

2010
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:38,559
and it's not uncommon um i was talking

2011
01:07:41,190 --> 01:07:40,079
about this uh i've been talking about

2012
01:07:44,309 --> 01:07:41,200
this with my friends

2013
01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:44,319
um uh it seems like

2014
01:07:49,109 --> 01:07:47,280
in the paranormal in general there's

2015
01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:49,119
always something weird

2016
01:07:55,390 --> 01:07:52,480
meaning just something not above board

2017
01:07:56,549 --> 01:07:55,400
there's hoaxing there's you know um

2018
01:07:59,589 --> 01:07:56,559
misrepresentation

2019
01:08:01,109 --> 01:07:59,599
and the thing is it's part of the field

2020
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:01,119
you can't get away from it

2021
01:08:06,069 --> 01:08:03,680
in fact some people that do um uh

2022
01:08:07,589 --> 01:08:06,079
psychic research

2023
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:07,599
they accept you know if they're smart

2024
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:09,200
they accept the hoaxing and

2025
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,880
the misrepresentation as part of the

2026
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:12,720
field it just happens

2027
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:14,559
and and the self-delusion and all that

2028
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:15,839
it's just it's

2029
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:18,080
as josh cutchen said the other day when

2030
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:20,880
i talked to him it's baked in

2031
01:08:25,110 --> 01:08:23,199
it's baked into bigfoot researchers ufo

2032
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:25,120
research ghost research it's

2033
01:08:28,550 --> 01:08:27,520
just part of the thing and you have to

2034
01:08:31,110 --> 01:08:28,560
accept it

2035
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:31,120
if you say this is fake and this is not

2036
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:32,799
therefore let's ignore this and this

2037
01:08:37,269 --> 01:08:34,400
person is full of crap

2038
01:08:38,789 --> 01:08:37,279
it's not always um i don't know how you

2039
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:38,799
feel about yuri geller but

2040
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:41,600
he faked all kinds of stuff but he also

2041
01:08:45,110 --> 01:08:43,120
did a lot of stuff that's

2042
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:45,120
kind of you know you kind of say how did

2043
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:46,319
he do that

2044
01:08:52,149 --> 01:08:49,920
um in labs with scientists who were

2045
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:52,159
you know yes they can be fooled but not

2046
01:08:56,550 --> 01:08:53,520
all the time

2047
01:08:58,470 --> 01:08:56,560
and so it's exciting that he wasn't

2048
01:09:00,149 --> 01:08:58,480
both wasn't it i'm trying to remember

2049
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:00,159
what it was a tonight show

2050
01:09:03,510 --> 01:09:02,480
where they had they laid things out for

2051
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:03,520
him and

2052
01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:05,440
he he basically said he had a headache i

2053
01:09:10,709 --> 01:09:07,359
think yeah he couldn't do it

2054
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:10,719
yeah yeah so that you know of course

2055
01:09:13,990 --> 01:09:12,719
you know people either think somebody is

2056
01:09:15,829 --> 01:09:14,000
fake or they're not

2057
01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:15,839
it's it's not that simple a lot of the

2058
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:17,600
time sometimes it is

2059
01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:20,880
but you know anything i mean the ufo

2060
01:09:23,829 --> 01:09:22,560
field is always going to have hoaxers

2061
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:23,839
and charlatans and

2062
01:09:27,990 --> 01:09:26,080
deluded people and and researchers that

2063
01:09:31,269 --> 01:09:28,000
are honest and researchers that are not

2064
01:09:33,430 --> 01:09:31,279
and that's just the way it is

2065
01:09:35,590 --> 01:09:33,440
it is a weird field and it has weird

2066
01:09:37,669 --> 01:09:35,600
stuff in it and if you can't accept that

2067
01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:37,679
like for instance i i think you know

2068
01:09:40,630 --> 01:09:39,279
stephen grier's kind in a lot of ways

2069
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:40,640
it's kind of a clown

2070
01:09:45,910 --> 01:09:43,920
but he started out really good

2071
01:09:47,749 --> 01:09:45,920
he started out really good and some of

2072
01:09:51,510 --> 01:09:47,759
the stuff that he does all his pro

2073
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:51,520
c5 protocols or whatever stuff happens

2074
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:53,040
i've talked to people who are not

2075
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:55,199
delusional and not stupid and not

2076
01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:56,800
and they've said amazing stuff has

2077
01:09:59,510 --> 01:09:58,400
happened using his techniques and when

2078
01:10:02,870 --> 01:09:59,520
he's around

2079
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:02,880
so you know um i don't know if you can

2080
01:10:05,669 --> 01:10:04,800
trust everything he says but some of the

2081
01:10:07,990 --> 01:10:05,679
stuff he does is

2082
01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:08,000
you know he charges thousands of dollars

2083
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:09,920
you have to question that

2084
01:10:14,229 --> 01:10:11,920
yeah well i totally question it i think

2085
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:14,239
i think it's i think it's um

2086
01:10:17,430 --> 01:10:16,640
it really taints what he does very very

2087
01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:17,440
heavily

2088
01:10:21,110 --> 01:10:19,520
but the fact is that if you throw that

2089
01:10:22,790 --> 01:10:21,120
baby out with the bathwater you're

2090
01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:22,800
throwing out i think some valuable

2091
01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:24,000
information

2092
01:10:27,669 --> 01:10:26,159
um i'm i'm sure there's how a bunch of

2093
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:27,679
the audience are going oh my god he

2094
01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:28,320
doesn't think

2095
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:30,000
stephen griff and the other half or why

2096
01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:31,360
are you being so mean to him

2097
01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:33,360
and that's fine with me but that's the

2098
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:35,840
way it is it's just you can't

2099
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:37,920
you can't totally pass judgment on

2100
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:39,760
everything i mean some people you can

2101
01:10:43,510 --> 01:10:42,560
like sean morton or whatever but if you

2102
01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:43,520
know

2103
01:10:46,550 --> 01:10:45,920
there's a lot of cases where it's not so

2104
01:10:48,229 --> 01:10:46,560
clear

2105
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:48,239
and you have to be okay with it not

2106
01:10:52,070 --> 01:10:50,640
being so clear or you you know if you're

2107
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:52,080
constantly either trying to prove or

2108
01:10:56,630 --> 01:10:54,080
disprove something you miss

2109
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,640
i think you miss most of what's going on

2110
01:11:00,550 --> 01:10:58,480
if you're if you you know i i

2111
01:11:01,750 --> 01:11:00,560
i said there's this this i told you so

2112
01:11:04,149 --> 01:11:01,760
disease

2113
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:04,159
people want proof of these things so

2114
01:11:07,270 --> 01:11:05,600
they can go to their friends say see

2115
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:07,280
i told you so it's not i'm not full of

2116
01:11:12,310 --> 01:11:09,120
crap i'm not crazy

2117
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:12,320
yeah and that's unfortunate because

2118
01:11:15,910 --> 01:11:14,560
you know the i told you so thing gets in

2119
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:15,920
the in the way of

2120
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:17,920
of i think some good discernment about

2121
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:19,920
what's useful and what's not

2122
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:22,480
i uh uh i'm sure you know who michael

2123
01:11:26,630 --> 01:11:23,679
horn is

2124
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:26,640
yeah michael horn represents billy meyer

2125
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:28,000
in the united states

2126
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:31,199
and uh he wanted to he basically

2127
01:11:34,709 --> 01:11:33,360
put in a request to be on the show and i

2128
01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:34,719
said uh

2129
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,719
no i'm i i i do not

2130
01:11:42,470 --> 01:11:40,320
believe in a lot of the things that

2131
01:11:45,110 --> 01:11:42,480
billy meyer has put forth

2132
01:11:46,709 --> 01:11:45,120
and so he said well give me examples and

2133
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:46,719
i should have just not gone back and

2134
01:11:51,189 --> 01:11:48,000
forth with them

2135
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:51,199
and uh just do not engage yeah

2136
01:11:54,709 --> 01:11:53,600
so i said okay the dean martin i forget

2137
01:11:57,830 --> 01:11:54,719
what they call the gold

2138
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:57,840
something singers and uh oh yeah the

2139
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:59,120
samyazi picture

2140
01:12:02,870 --> 01:12:01,120
yeah yeah and they're the picture that

2141
01:12:04,870 --> 01:12:02,880
bill billy meyer says were the

2142
01:12:06,149 --> 01:12:04,880
aliens you know visiting him that that

2143
01:12:09,189 --> 01:12:06,159
type of yeah so

2144
01:12:12,229 --> 01:12:09,199
he had a whole explanation for that

2145
01:12:13,750 --> 01:12:12,239
and uh anyway the back and forth went

2146
01:12:15,510 --> 01:12:13,760
and i just said i'm not i'm not

2147
01:12:17,669 --> 01:12:15,520
responding to you anymore so just leave

2148
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:17,679
me alone this is michael porn

2149
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:21,120
i don't care if he whatever he said okay

2150
01:12:23,590 --> 01:12:22,800
he says i'm putting something out on the

2151
01:12:25,030 --> 01:12:23,600
internet

2152
01:12:27,189 --> 01:12:25,040
it's going to go live and it's going to

2153
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:27,199
say that you're spreading covet

2154
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:30,400
and he says sue me if you want to

2155
01:12:33,669 --> 01:12:31,760
that's how he got back at me for not

2156
01:12:36,070 --> 01:12:33,679
putting on putting up yeah

2157
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:36,080
yeah i've i've uh he's actually written

2158
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:37,920
to me asking to be on the show and i did

2159
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,120
not respond

2160
01:12:42,470 --> 01:12:42,000
yeah that was smart i got a lot well

2161
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:42,480
after

2162
01:12:47,910 --> 01:12:45,679
people you just should

2163
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,920
i actually i'm not trying to sell

2164
01:12:49,990 --> 01:12:49,440
anything but i also sell t-shirts that

2165
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:50,000
say do not

2166
01:12:53,590 --> 01:12:52,880
engage on them yeah that's been actually

2167
01:12:55,350 --> 01:12:53,600
the best

2168
01:12:56,870 --> 01:12:55,360
seller of anything i've sold i think i

2169
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:56,880
should try to print them up myself so i

2170
01:13:01,430 --> 01:12:58,320
can actually make money off them

2171
01:13:02,070 --> 01:13:01,440
yeah but um the the point of that is you

2172
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:02,080
know

2173
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:03,840
people see that and they go well if you

2174
01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:05,280
don't talk to people okay you're not

2175
01:13:07,990 --> 01:13:06,320
gonna be able to change their minds

2176
01:13:08,630 --> 01:13:08,000
you're not be able to expose things it's

2177
01:13:10,709 --> 01:13:08,640
like

2178
01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:10,719
that's not my purpose in life here i'm

2179
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:12,400
not here to convince anybody of anything

2180
01:13:16,790 --> 01:13:14,480
or change people's minds or do an

2181
01:13:20,229 --> 01:13:16,800
expose that's not me that's somebody

2182
01:13:24,229 --> 01:13:22,310
yeah if you want to deal with you can

2183
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:24,239
change people's minds but not a public

2184
01:13:27,830 --> 01:13:26,159
forum you can change them one by one

2185
01:13:29,669 --> 01:13:27,840
privately

2186
01:13:31,270 --> 01:13:29,679
that that is probably the most effective

2187
01:13:32,709 --> 01:13:31,280
thing i've had horrible fights with

2188
01:13:33,590 --> 01:13:32,719
people online and then i write to them

2189
01:13:35,189 --> 01:13:33,600
offline i was like

2190
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:35,199
what's the deal here are you pissed off

2191
01:13:39,669 --> 01:13:37,440
or something yeah nine times out of ten

2192
01:13:42,149 --> 01:13:39,679
no no no no no i'm not pissed off and

2193
01:13:45,430 --> 01:13:42,159
then we have a civilized conversation

2194
01:13:47,669 --> 01:13:45,440
yeah um i think truth matters and

2195
01:13:48,709 --> 01:13:47,679
that's there's a real problem with truth

2196
01:13:51,510 --> 01:13:48,719
in media

2197
01:13:52,630 --> 01:13:51,520
and this country and you name it social

2198
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:52,640
media whatever

2199
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:54,320
there's so many conspiracies about

2200
01:13:57,270 --> 01:13:55,679
everything it's like

2201
01:13:59,189 --> 01:13:57,280
i stay off social media now that's

2202
01:14:00,950 --> 01:13:59,199
another story

2203
01:14:03,110 --> 01:14:00,960
someone wants to know do you think

2204
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:03,120
research on skinwalker ranch could give

2205
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:04,320
us useful answers

2206
01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:08,800
on the ufo topic thank you jake

2207
01:14:15,430 --> 01:14:12,320
yeah thank you um

2208
01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:15,440
yes if you if you had to you know

2209
01:14:19,110 --> 01:14:18,320
force me in an answer i'd say yes um i

2210
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:19,120
don't know

2211
01:14:23,669 --> 01:14:21,760
how i'd go about it probably not the way

2212
01:14:26,630 --> 01:14:23,679
that it has been but

2213
01:14:27,990 --> 01:14:26,640
you know um i think the original

2214
01:14:30,870 --> 01:14:28,000
scientists there

2215
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:30,880
for bigelow there was a discussion as to

2216
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:32,400
whether they should

2217
01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:35,360
kind of go at go edit new agey shamanic

2218
01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:36,400
whatever

2219
01:14:40,550 --> 01:14:38,400
or they should go at it completely

2220
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:40,560
scientific with instrumentation

2221
01:14:43,990 --> 01:14:42,320
and data and all that and the data

2222
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:44,000
people went out

2223
01:14:50,790 --> 01:14:47,360
and i think that's a problem

2224
01:14:52,870 --> 01:14:50,800
i think both should be pursued

2225
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:52,880
because we can perceive things that

2226
01:14:56,149 --> 01:14:54,400
instruments will not pick up

2227
01:14:58,149 --> 01:14:56,159
we can interpret things that instruments

2228
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:58,159
cannot pick up or interpret

2229
01:15:02,310 --> 01:15:00,239
the hum the human body and mind and

2230
01:15:03,350 --> 01:15:02,320
psyche are just as valuable an

2231
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:03,360
instrument

2232
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:05,920
even not withstanding the inaccuracies i

2233
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:07,120
said earlier

2234
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:09,600
are just as accurate in another way is

2235
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:10,560
an instrument

2236
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:13,760
that that that that then as

2237
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:17,120
um instrumentation like

2238
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:20,159
i'll give you an example if you

2239
01:15:24,070 --> 01:15:22,400
you can hear a piece of music and you

2240
01:15:27,430 --> 01:15:24,080
can examine it as music

2241
01:15:30,790 --> 01:15:27,440
and as timing and as time signatures

2242
01:15:32,390 --> 01:15:30,800
and and frequencies and all that

2243
01:15:34,709 --> 01:15:32,400
that's different than hearing a piece of

2244
01:15:37,510 --> 01:15:34,719
music and becoming

2245
01:15:38,070 --> 01:15:37,520
emotionally involved with it those are

2246
01:15:40,229 --> 01:15:38,080
two different

2247
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:40,239
things but they're they're both examples

2248
01:15:44,630 --> 01:15:41,600
and results of the same

2249
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:44,640
the same phenomenon a piece of music

2250
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:46,480
um and kind of that's how i kind of feel

2251
01:15:52,910 --> 01:15:48,400
about the ufo thing i mean it's

2252
01:15:55,750 --> 01:15:52,920
there's a whole um psychological

2253
01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:55,760
humanities-based arc based um

2254
01:16:00,070 --> 01:15:58,640
appreciation or or of component to it

2255
01:16:02,390 --> 01:16:00,080
that is not looked at

2256
01:16:04,390 --> 01:16:02,400
and i think that's that's uh that really

2257
01:16:07,510 --> 01:16:04,400
should be changed in fact i'm giving

2258
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:07,520
talks about that now called ufo i talk

2259
01:16:12,950 --> 01:16:10,000
called ufos in the right brain

2260
01:16:14,709 --> 01:16:12,960
um that that that part ought to be

2261
01:16:16,229 --> 01:16:14,719
appreciated i've been writing essays

2262
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:16,239
actually on facebook about paintings

2263
01:16:18,790 --> 01:16:16,640
with

2264
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:18,800
supernatural themes just what does the

2265
01:16:23,350 --> 01:16:20,400
painting represent

2266
01:16:24,950 --> 01:16:23,360
um what can we tell about the well can

2267
01:16:25,430 --> 01:16:24,960
we tell about the artist and the time

2268
01:16:26,790 --> 01:16:25,440
and

2269
01:16:28,390 --> 01:16:26,800
you know what they thought about

2270
01:16:29,270 --> 01:16:28,400
whatever the you know the the the

2271
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:29,280
phenomena they're

2272
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:31,600
representing is that that's very

2273
01:16:35,270 --> 01:16:33,360
interesting to me right now

2274
01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:35,280
and i think that should be you know we

2275
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:36,800
ought to have more artists than the uh

2276
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:39,440
as ufologists um that aren't like you

2277
01:16:43,189 --> 01:16:39,840
know

2278
01:16:45,590 --> 01:16:43,199
bud hopkins was fine but he was

2279
01:16:46,790 --> 01:16:45,600
he was very analytical about the way he

2280
01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:46,800
went about things

2281
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:48,719
he didn't use his art brain which i

2282
01:16:53,990 --> 01:16:50,239
think he should have

2283
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:54,000
yeah i did one painting um after a show

2284
01:16:56,310 --> 01:16:55,440
i did here i wonder if i could pull it

2285
01:17:00,470 --> 01:16:56,320
up

2286
01:17:04,470 --> 01:17:00,480
and show you um but it was uh

2287
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:04,480
it was completely um i just kind of like

2288
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:07,679
didn't even think i just uh i just took

2289
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:08,080
my

2290
01:17:14,470 --> 01:17:11,120
uh brush and different paints

2291
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:14,480
and i just i'm gonna pull the picture

2292
01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:17,120
up and uh i i sometimes write prose

2293
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:19,120
about things that i'm thinking about

2294
01:17:22,790 --> 01:17:20,800
and i don't if i have to think about it

2295
01:17:23,270 --> 01:17:22,800
doesn't work i just have to let it come

2296
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:23,280
out of me

2297
01:17:26,870 --> 01:17:25,520
like it's just sitting there and it just

2298
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:26,880
flows out of me and then i look at it

2299
01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:27,679
later it's like

2300
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:29,360
ah i guess that's what i was thinking

2301
01:17:32,149 --> 01:17:30,719
but i'm writing it i'm not thinking

2302
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:32,159
about what i'm writing it's just coming

2303
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:32,880
out of me

2304
01:17:36,149 --> 01:17:34,640
say i suppose it's the same thing with

2305
01:17:38,310 --> 01:17:36,159
you in this painting

2306
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:38,320
yeah um there's a and there's actually a

2307
01:17:41,669 --> 01:17:40,000
name for it but i can't

2308
01:17:43,430 --> 01:17:41,679
um it's i think it's called a

2309
01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:43,440
reactionary

2310
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:48,719
abstract

2311
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:51,840
here it is right here so um

2312
01:17:58,149 --> 01:17:55,760
it really means and i call it uh uh

2313
01:17:59,750 --> 01:17:58,159
newton's third law of motion i think

2314
01:18:02,870 --> 01:17:59,760
that's what the name of it is

2315
01:18:04,709 --> 01:18:02,880
but i just did this in like

2316
01:18:06,229 --> 01:18:04,719
a body at rest will tend to stay at rest

2317
01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:06,239
the body of motion will tend to stay in

2318
01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:07,920
motion

2319
01:18:11,830 --> 01:18:09,120
is that what you're talking that's the

2320
01:18:12,229 --> 01:18:11,840
third law right i i think that is that

2321
01:18:17,669 --> 01:18:12,239
it's

2322
01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:17,679
ever played jeopardy

2323
01:18:21,910 --> 01:18:20,480
you should be on jeopardy i i would lock

2324
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:21,920
up i had a friend that was on jeopardy

2325
01:18:24,229 --> 01:18:23,520
he was a champion he won a car and

2326
01:18:26,950 --> 01:18:24,239
everything

2327
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:26,960
oh wow and he had like actresses calling

2328
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:28,400
him up trying to get dates with him it's

2329
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:28,960
like

2330
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:32,000
maybe i should go on jeopardy but i

2331
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:32,960
don't know if i'd win

2332
01:18:37,270 --> 01:18:34,560
the thing was when he was on and i was

2333
01:18:40,630 --> 01:18:37,280
sitting in the audience watching it

2334
01:18:42,470 --> 01:18:40,640
i think i would have won

2335
01:18:44,870 --> 01:18:42,480
i was like oh damn i wish i was on i

2336
01:18:47,430 --> 01:18:44,880
knew the answers

2337
01:18:49,270 --> 01:18:47,440
but sports stuff i don't know unless

2338
01:18:49,910 --> 01:18:49,280
it's baseball so i would fall down on

2339
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:49,920
that

2340
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:53,280
yeah um you were talking

2341
01:18:59,270 --> 01:18:56,480
um earlier about um

2342
01:19:01,510 --> 01:18:59,280
the good with the bad in the ufo field i

2343
01:19:03,990 --> 01:19:01,520
guess you want to say that the

2344
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:04,000
being part of it all being part of it

2345
01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:06,960
you know i was recently

2346
01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:10,640
contacted by someone who said um

2347
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:13,920
uh they're new to the topic and please

2348
01:19:17,669 --> 01:19:16,400
share what videos i think are real on

2349
01:19:20,950 --> 01:19:17,679
youtube

2350
01:19:22,070 --> 01:19:20,960
with him and i said i basically can't

2351
01:19:25,189 --> 01:19:22,080
think of anything

2352
01:19:27,350 --> 01:19:25,199
right now but um you probably want to

2353
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:27,360
stay away from these channels

2354
01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:29,760
yeah i named third phase of the moon

2355
01:19:33,990 --> 01:19:31,120
secure team 10

2356
01:19:36,709 --> 01:19:34,000
a couple of others you know just because

2357
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:36,719
those are ones that uh there are a lot

2358
01:19:41,830 --> 01:19:38,480
of cgi and a lot of

2359
01:19:43,110 --> 01:19:41,840
hoaxers just to make uh and some of them

2360
01:19:45,110 --> 01:19:43,120
i think one of them they were saying

2361
01:19:46,870 --> 01:19:45,120
like i was making

2362
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:46,880
a lot of money i can't remember what it

2363
01:19:49,669 --> 01:19:49,040
was but it was you know thousands per

2364
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:49,679
week

2365
01:19:54,470 --> 01:19:53,040
on his youtube channel yeah so

2366
01:19:56,229 --> 01:19:54,480
yeah that's why people should stay away

2367
01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:56,239
from that kind of stuff i i suppose i

2368
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:57,840
should warn people away from it but i'm

2369
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:59,679
not i'm not a crusader i figure people

2370
01:20:03,189 --> 01:20:01,440
get to figure this out for themselves

2371
01:20:04,950 --> 01:20:03,199
and if i if i point it out it's just

2372
01:20:07,270 --> 01:20:04,960
going to make people mad

2373
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:07,280
yeah you know so oh by the way i keep

2374
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,880
seeing this people don't know what it is

2375
01:20:12,070 --> 01:20:10,800
it's actually an old

2376
01:20:15,189 --> 01:20:12,080
oh wait a minute wait a minute let me

2377
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:15,199
get uh it's a logo from the old boeing

2378
01:20:18,790 --> 01:20:17,040
company when they first were in

2379
01:20:20,550 --> 01:20:18,800
the northwest so it's basically a totem

2380
01:20:22,550 --> 01:20:20,560
pole with the boeing on it

2381
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:22,560
that's awesome i just wanted to make

2382
01:20:25,350 --> 01:20:23,760
because i'm looking at it's like oh it

2383
01:20:26,310 --> 01:20:25,360
looks like a cross i wanted to make sure

2384
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:26,320
people it's like

2385
01:20:29,750 --> 01:20:27,840
no i have nothing against religion but

2386
01:20:31,510 --> 01:20:29,760
i'm not representing or anything

2387
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:31,520
it's i if i am it's for the boeing

2388
01:20:35,990 --> 01:20:33,280
company

2389
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:36,000
and you you're a pilot um a private

2390
01:20:39,990 --> 01:20:36,800
pilot

2391
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:40,000
and yeah and uh how many hours to have

2392
01:20:43,590 --> 01:20:41,920
you log so far

2393
01:20:45,350 --> 01:20:43,600
nothing like maybe three or four hundred

2394
01:20:47,750 --> 01:20:45,360
hours something like that oh okay

2395
01:20:49,510 --> 01:20:47,760
i was going to ask you as far as flying

2396
01:20:50,790 --> 01:20:49,520
goes that's basically nothing

2397
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:50,800
i've had far more hours actually

2398
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:52,320
paragliding than i've had flying because

2399
01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:53,199
i've been doing it

2400
01:20:57,830 --> 01:20:56,080
a lot longer wow how about that i would

2401
01:20:58,629 --> 01:20:57,840
i probably have hundreds or thousands of

2402
01:21:00,709 --> 01:20:58,639
hours para

2403
01:21:01,669 --> 01:21:00,719
gliding and only a few hundred in an

2404
01:21:04,709 --> 01:21:01,679
aircraft

2405
01:21:05,350 --> 01:21:04,719
if you gave me a million dollars i would

2406
01:21:08,149 --> 01:21:05,360
not go

2407
01:21:09,510 --> 01:21:08,159
on a paraglider i just couldn't do it i

2408
01:21:12,790 --> 01:21:09,520
just have a fear

2409
01:21:14,709 --> 01:21:12,800
did you happen to catch the video it

2410
01:21:16,390 --> 01:21:14,719
over hawaii where it showed this blue

2411
01:21:17,910 --> 01:21:16,400
object and it looked like it

2412
01:21:20,070 --> 01:21:17,920
it was kind of floating and then it

2413
01:21:20,629 --> 01:21:20,080
landed in the they think it landed in

2414
01:21:22,470 --> 01:21:20,639
the sea

2415
01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:22,480
did you happen to catch that i didn't

2416
01:21:25,750 --> 01:21:24,000
see it but i did see the report the

2417
01:21:27,350 --> 01:21:25,760
thing is every time i see a video it's

2418
01:21:29,830 --> 01:21:27,360
like here's another video

2419
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:29,840
like i said before it's like it's really

2420
01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:31,440
not going to prove anything but i

2421
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:32,800
suppose it might be

2422
01:21:37,030 --> 01:21:34,800
interesting so i usually don't look at

2423
01:21:40,390 --> 01:21:37,040
them probably that's a mistake

2424
01:21:41,590 --> 01:21:40,400
but i i get no positive feedback about

2425
01:21:42,629 --> 01:21:41,600
looking at them like okay there's

2426
01:21:43,830 --> 01:21:42,639
another video of something's

2427
01:21:46,470 --> 01:21:43,840
unidentified

2428
01:21:46,870 --> 01:21:46,480
yeah i do think that one in particular

2429
01:21:51,430 --> 01:21:46,880
was

2430
01:21:54,629 --> 01:21:51,440
a glider with um led blue led lights

2431
01:21:55,669 --> 01:21:54,639
oh okay yeah there's a beautiful video

2432
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:55,679
of a guy

2433
01:21:59,189 --> 01:21:57,440
speed flying which is a paraglider

2434
01:22:00,070 --> 01:21:59,199
that's way too small so you just fly

2435
01:22:02,070 --> 01:22:00,080
like

2436
01:22:04,629 --> 01:22:02,080
five times as fast which i would never

2437
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,639
do in a high wind i might you either fly

2438
01:22:08,709 --> 01:22:06,480
him an extremely high wind or when you

2439
01:22:10,709 --> 01:22:08,719
want to fly really fast

2440
01:22:13,270 --> 01:22:10,719
but he's flying down like a mountain in

2441
01:22:15,189 --> 01:22:13,280
europe at night with leds in the wing

2442
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:15,199
and doing like spins and everything it's

2443
01:22:17,750 --> 01:22:16,320
beautiful

2444
01:22:19,750 --> 01:22:17,760
wow but if you're far away you'd

2445
01:22:22,229 --> 01:22:19,760
probably think what the hell is that

2446
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:22,239
you know yeah there was some uh there

2447
01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:25,920
was a famous ufo sighting it was for a

2448
01:22:29,270 --> 01:22:26,719
while

2449
01:22:31,030 --> 01:22:29,280
um that they had i think they had flares

2450
01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:31,040
when they jumped from the plane

2451
01:22:34,070 --> 01:22:32,320
um i don't know if you ever saw that

2452
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:34,080
that was many years ago i i saw i

2453
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:36,000
haven't but i've seen flares out in the

2454
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:37,760
desert where i thought oh my god what's

2455
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:38,800
that

2456
01:22:42,229 --> 01:22:40,400
because we saw these really bright

2457
01:22:44,470 --> 01:22:42,239
floating lights out in the desert

2458
01:22:46,229 --> 01:22:44,480
right over 29 palms marine base which

2459
01:22:47,990 --> 01:22:46,239
should have told you something

2460
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:48,000
um they're probably doing night

2461
01:22:50,310 --> 01:22:49,520
operations sliding up the ground with

2462
01:22:52,870 --> 01:22:50,320
the flares

2463
01:22:55,510 --> 01:22:52,880
but you know from 15 20 miles away all

2464
01:22:56,709 --> 01:22:55,520
you see these floating yellowish lights

2465
01:22:58,629 --> 01:22:56,719
and i was with a friend and we were like

2466
01:23:00,070 --> 01:22:58,639
holy oh my god what is that

2467
01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:00,080
what is that oh my god we got all

2468
01:23:03,030 --> 01:23:01,920
excited i took out binoculars

2469
01:23:04,950 --> 01:23:03,040
and i looked and i could see the

2470
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:04,960
parachutes above them

2471
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:08,159
yeah yeah

2472
01:23:12,149 --> 01:23:09,760
i wish i could if i could find that

2473
01:23:15,189 --> 01:23:12,159
video i have a way of actually showing

2474
01:23:17,189 --> 01:23:15,199
uh like a whole screen here but

2475
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:17,199
as we uh as we go along i'll take a look

2476
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:18,880
for that um

2477
01:23:21,910 --> 01:23:21,520
i have i do have my favorite ufo video

2478
01:23:24,470 --> 01:23:21,920
if i

2479
01:23:25,750 --> 01:23:24,480
had to have one i can't find it it was

2480
01:23:28,950 --> 01:23:25,760
shot sometime in the

2481
01:23:30,149 --> 01:23:28,960
mid to late 80s in las vegas supposedly

2482
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:30,159
from a hotel room

2483
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:32,560
and it was shot but whoever did it said

2484
01:23:37,990 --> 01:23:34,080
i was pointing it at

2485
01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:38,000
north of vegas basically where the um

2486
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:39,280
i can't remember the name of what the

2487
01:23:43,750 --> 01:23:41,040
air force base is there but

2488
01:23:45,110 --> 01:23:43,760
area 51 is part of that air force base

2489
01:23:46,950 --> 01:23:45,120
but this is right next

2490
01:23:48,629 --> 01:23:46,960
to vegas and it's three or four lights

2491
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:48,639
doing the falling leaf motion

2492
01:23:51,750 --> 01:23:50,560
this kind of stuff they fall like this

2493
01:23:53,350 --> 01:23:51,760
and then they go shooting up and then

2494
01:23:55,270 --> 01:23:53,360
they do this again

2495
01:23:56,709 --> 01:23:55,280
wow and they're they're just a gaggle of

2496
01:23:58,709 --> 01:23:56,719
these lights doing this it's like

2497
01:24:00,790 --> 01:23:58,719
okay it was early enough that that can't

2498
01:24:02,149 --> 01:24:00,800
be faked and it's not anything that i

2499
01:24:03,910 --> 01:24:02,159
know of um

2500
01:24:05,270 --> 01:24:03,920
you know that could that could cause

2501
01:24:07,990 --> 01:24:05,280
that that was a natural

2502
01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:08,000
thing so i always loved that video but i

2503
01:24:11,110 --> 01:24:09,840
haven't seen it in years i haven't seen

2504
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:11,120
it probably in over 10

2505
01:24:15,590 --> 01:24:13,840
or 20 years but it was totally stunning

2506
01:24:17,830 --> 01:24:15,600
to me i was like wow there's the falling

2507
01:24:20,950 --> 01:24:17,840
leaf motion that people talk about

2508
01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:20,960
huh how about that um it's funny you

2509
01:24:24,550 --> 01:24:22,400
mentioned that because uh

2510
01:24:26,470 --> 01:24:24,560
i have a friend i haven't spoken to her

2511
01:24:29,110 --> 01:24:26,480
in a number of years she has

2512
01:24:30,229 --> 01:24:29,120
she was on uh she had her own tv show

2513
01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:30,239
for a while on

2514
01:24:33,430 --> 01:24:32,480
like antiques uh decorating and stuff

2515
01:24:37,669 --> 01:24:33,440
like that

2516
01:24:41,110 --> 01:24:37,679
carrie unusual last name anyway

2517
01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:41,120
she she uh all of a sudden

2518
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:42,880
one day we had this where she was

2519
01:24:46,070 --> 01:24:44,960
actually on my antique podcast you know

2520
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:46,080
things like that

2521
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:47,760
and then all of a sudden one day she

2522
01:24:52,390 --> 01:24:49,920
calls me and she goes i can't believe i

2523
01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:52,400
just found your name under ufos

2524
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:54,480
i said what's going on and then she told

2525
01:24:58,310 --> 01:24:56,639
me she said i had this amazing sighting

2526
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:58,320
in las vegas

2527
01:25:01,750 --> 01:25:00,080
she said we were coming out of our hotel

2528
01:25:03,669 --> 01:25:01,760
room and she said this

2529
01:25:04,870 --> 01:25:03,679
great big triangle was just sitting

2530
01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:04,880
there

2531
01:25:10,950 --> 01:25:08,159
sightings in

2532
01:25:12,070 --> 01:25:10,960
that area i mean there's a lot going on

2533
01:25:14,149 --> 01:25:12,080
yeah i mean i think

2534
01:25:15,669 --> 01:25:14,159
one there's incredibly huge amount of

2535
01:25:18,310 --> 01:25:15,679
testing going on

2536
01:25:20,310 --> 01:25:18,320
right um and two it's just been a place

2537
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:20,320
where there's been ufos forever

2538
01:25:23,430 --> 01:25:21,600
it's funny that she was right in the

2539
01:25:24,470 --> 01:25:23,440
middle of vegas or right near there and

2540
01:25:27,430 --> 01:25:24,480
saw that and

2541
01:25:29,669 --> 01:25:27,440
it didn't become like a huge news story

2542
01:25:31,590 --> 01:25:29,679
and maybe that has to do with

2543
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:31,600
different people seeing different things

2544
01:25:34,149 --> 01:25:33,600
or maybe you could just see it from that

2545
01:25:37,189 --> 01:25:34,159
spot

2546
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:37,199
who knows yeah you know and that that

2547
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:38,880
can be put down to all kinds of things i

2548
01:25:41,830 --> 01:25:40,080
mean maybe there is some kind of

2549
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:41,840
military technology where only certain

2550
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:43,600
people in a certain spot can see things

2551
01:25:46,229 --> 01:25:44,400
and other people

2552
01:25:48,470 --> 01:25:46,239
far away in a different spot cannot see

2553
01:25:49,669 --> 01:25:48,480
them maybe light is bent in some way i

2554
01:25:52,870 --> 01:25:49,679
don't know

2555
01:25:54,870 --> 01:25:52,880
i had a a a show where i did

2556
01:25:56,229 --> 01:25:54,880
i don't do a lot of these work it's a

2557
01:25:59,750 --> 01:25:56,239
it's a witness

2558
01:26:01,350 --> 01:25:59,760
of a single ufo incident but according

2559
01:26:02,070 --> 01:26:01,360
to him it was pretty spectacular his

2560
01:26:04,470 --> 01:26:02,080
name was tim

2561
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:04,480
c nor he was on a few weeks ago some

2562
01:26:07,910 --> 01:26:06,239
people didn't really

2563
01:26:09,590 --> 01:26:07,920
care for the show all that much and then

2564
01:26:13,189 --> 01:26:09,600
some people really liked it

2565
01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:13,199
but his sighting was pretty spectacular

2566
01:26:17,110 --> 01:26:15,120
looked almost like a portal

2567
01:26:18,629 --> 01:26:17,120
type of thing situation with other you

2568
01:26:21,510 --> 01:26:18,639
know several objects or whatever

2569
01:26:23,830 --> 01:26:21,520
but it was just him his father his

2570
01:26:25,590 --> 01:26:23,840
mother and i think the kids

2571
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:25,600
um his wife too he never really

2572
01:26:30,070 --> 01:26:26,960
mentioned that but

2573
01:26:33,270 --> 01:26:30,080
um that was one of the questions i had

2574
01:26:35,189 --> 01:26:33,280
it such a spectacular sighting

2575
01:26:38,149 --> 01:26:35,199
there were no other witnesses i mean he

2576
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:38,159
yeah he contacted mufon put in

2577
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:40,960
uh you know maybe maybe someone report

2578
01:26:45,189 --> 01:26:42,719
it since it was in oregon maybe

2579
01:26:46,550 --> 01:26:45,199
they reported it to peter davenport

2580
01:26:50,229 --> 01:26:46,560
instead i don't know

2581
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:50,239
yeah but i reported my sighting to peter

2582
01:26:54,390 --> 01:26:52,800
to that to the uh peter davenport's

2583
01:26:55,510 --> 01:26:54,400
organization they said thank you

2584
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:55,520
anything else you've ever heard like

2585
01:27:03,990 --> 01:27:02,390
so that's where it went yeah it went to

2586
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:04,000
the national ufo reporting center

2587
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:06,960
not to mufon or kufo as i sent it i

2588
01:27:10,550 --> 01:27:09,199
think kufos was still around then 2008

2589
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:10,560
or

2590
01:27:17,189 --> 01:27:13,840
that but um

2591
01:27:20,470 --> 01:27:17,199
the uh the uh

2592
01:27:22,709 --> 01:27:20,480
uh uh now i forgot what i was saying oh

2593
01:27:24,310 --> 01:27:22,719
um that i for some reason i just wanted

2594
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:24,320
to report to the national ufo

2595
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:27,199
reporting center not the not mufon i was

2596
01:27:30,790 --> 01:27:28,480
already kind of

2597
01:27:32,629 --> 01:27:30,800
pulling away from dealing with mufon

2598
01:27:36,229 --> 01:27:32,639
anymore at that point i guess

2599
01:27:38,390 --> 01:27:36,239
i i don't i you know i don't

2600
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:38,400
dislike mufon i just dislike the way

2601
01:27:42,310 --> 01:27:40,159
it's run and the fact that

2602
01:27:45,430 --> 01:27:42,320
i in a more greater sense that a

2603
01:27:47,030 --> 01:27:45,440
top-down organization cannot examine the

2604
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:47,040
the the phenomenon and the way i think

2605
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:48,560
it should be examined

2606
01:27:51,910 --> 01:27:50,960
uh they they're having they're having a

2607
01:27:56,070 --> 01:27:51,920
bit of uh

2608
01:27:59,030 --> 01:27:56,080
issues right now uh well i mean since uh

2609
01:28:00,470 --> 01:27:59,040
you know jan's uh issue i don't think it

2610
01:28:02,149 --> 01:28:00,480
helped any and

2611
01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:02,159
i don't know i mean they they had they

2612
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:03,760
had problems before that too it just

2613
01:28:06,310 --> 01:28:05,280
gets worse and worse and worse and i

2614
01:28:08,229 --> 01:28:06,320
don't know why

2615
01:28:09,669 --> 01:28:08,239
people didn't leave on moss they did the

2616
01:28:12,390 --> 01:28:09,679
first time

2617
01:28:14,149 --> 01:28:12,400
um and then some came back the only

2618
01:28:15,669 --> 01:28:14,159
problem is and i go see mufon

2619
01:28:18,149 --> 01:28:15,679
you know i've spoken to one mufon

2620
01:28:20,550 --> 01:28:18,159
meeting since then in in in

2621
01:28:21,510 --> 01:28:20,560
up here in the san fernando valley for

2622
01:28:25,189 --> 01:28:21,520
um

2623
01:28:27,910 --> 01:28:25,199
their mufun group

2624
01:28:30,149 --> 01:28:27,920
and i keep asking people like why do you

2625
01:28:31,189 --> 01:28:30,159
stay with mufon after all these scandals

2626
01:28:33,270 --> 01:28:31,199
and everything that

2627
01:28:36,310 --> 01:28:33,280
the answer is and it's a legitimate

2628
01:28:37,750 --> 01:28:36,320
answer i have nowhere else to go

2629
01:28:40,070 --> 01:28:37,760
there's no other groups around here

2630
01:28:41,750 --> 01:28:40,080
where i can meet people and talk to them

2631
01:28:43,270 --> 01:28:41,760
about this subject and be able to talk

2632
01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:43,280
freely about it and

2633
01:28:46,709 --> 01:28:45,280
meet you know be around people who know

2634
01:28:48,149 --> 01:28:46,719
what i'm talking about i said you know

2635
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:48,159
what that's a legit

2636
01:28:51,510 --> 01:28:49,920
reason but i still think you should

2637
01:28:55,270 --> 01:28:51,520
leave and the thing i

2638
01:28:58,470 --> 01:28:55,280
i say is look if you've got a a burning

2639
01:28:59,430 --> 01:28:58,480
issue question piece of research that

2640
01:29:02,390 --> 01:28:59,440
you want to do

2641
01:29:04,470 --> 01:29:02,400
form your own group and do it in fact

2642
01:29:05,910 --> 01:29:04,480
when i spoke at the mufon thing i

2643
01:29:07,830 --> 01:29:05,920
encouraged people to do that there was

2644
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:07,840
somebody there from the national office

2645
01:29:09,990 --> 01:29:09,199
and they did not look happy with me

2646
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:10,000
saying that

2647
01:29:13,590 --> 01:29:13,120
but i didn't care because i think that

2648
01:29:18,870 --> 01:29:13,600
the

2649
01:29:20,790 --> 01:29:18,880
amenable to

2650
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:20,800
many many different people looking at it

2651
01:29:25,270 --> 01:29:22,320
from many many different

2652
01:29:26,870 --> 01:29:25,280
viewpoints independently i think that's

2653
01:29:28,709 --> 01:29:26,880
where a lot of answers or

2654
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:28,719
understanding or whatever will come from

2655
01:29:32,629 --> 01:29:30,880
not from a giant organization that

2656
01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:32,639
where a few people the top determine

2657
01:29:36,070 --> 01:29:33,840
what's going to happen where all the

2658
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:36,080
information goes and has a certain idea

2659
01:29:39,430 --> 01:29:37,840
and collects all the information for tv

2660
01:29:41,750 --> 01:29:39,440
shows or whatever

2661
01:29:43,270 --> 01:29:41,760
however close however down far down that

2662
01:29:46,110 --> 01:29:43,280
rabbit hole you want to go

2663
01:29:47,910 --> 01:29:46,120
but the the point to me is that a

2664
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:47,920
democratization of the

2665
01:29:52,229 --> 01:29:50,000
of the study is probably going to be a

2666
01:29:54,310 --> 01:29:52,239
lot better for the subject than

2667
01:29:56,229 --> 01:29:54,320
one or two big groups telling everybody

2668
01:29:58,870 --> 01:29:56,239
what they think

2669
01:30:00,870 --> 01:29:58,880
because the subject is not it is not a

2670
01:30:03,189 --> 01:30:00,880
top down subject it is a completely

2671
01:30:05,830 --> 01:30:03,199
democratic subject

2672
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:05,840
you know what i mean if you've got an

2673
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:07,760
idea about it it's probably right in

2674
01:30:13,189 --> 01:30:09,040
some way

2675
01:30:16,310 --> 01:30:13,199
no matter how insane it sounds um

2676
01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:16,320
well um i know it it's probably

2677
01:30:19,669 --> 01:30:18,880
very hard to start something and the

2678
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:19,679
only

2679
01:30:24,550 --> 01:30:23,760
uh if someone does feel like starting

2680
01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:24,560
something

2681
01:30:30,229 --> 01:30:27,760
it's better to start in an area like

2682
01:30:31,350 --> 01:30:30,239
you can get people maybe interested and

2683
01:30:34,390 --> 01:30:31,360
um like i said

2684
01:30:36,390 --> 01:30:34,400
i don't use uh social media much uh i

2685
01:30:39,430 --> 01:30:36,400
post the show and a few other things

2686
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:39,440
but it's a good way to start a group

2687
01:30:44,629 --> 01:30:42,159
facebook i've started more than one

2688
01:30:45,910 --> 01:30:44,639
group we did it we worked on one subject

2689
01:30:47,430 --> 01:30:45,920
then when we were done with it we

2690
01:30:48,950 --> 01:30:47,440
stopped and went on to something else

2691
01:30:50,629 --> 01:30:48,960
with a completely different group and i

2692
01:30:53,830 --> 01:30:50,639
think that's how it should be done

2693
01:30:57,350 --> 01:30:53,840
because organizations start to get

2694
01:31:00,310 --> 01:30:57,360
hierarchies and you know uh

2695
01:31:01,430 --> 01:31:00,320
issues of power and i want things to be

2696
01:31:03,430 --> 01:31:01,440
run this way but if you

2697
01:31:04,629 --> 01:31:03,440
have a group running for a year or two

2698
01:31:06,470 --> 01:31:04,639
or a few months

2699
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,480
and you have us focus and you do what

2700
01:31:09,270 --> 01:31:08,480
you're going to do be like a ufo

2701
01:31:12,629 --> 01:31:09,280
sighting

2702
01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:12,639
you know come in do something finish

2703
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:15,440
it and then move on and then publish

2704
01:31:18,550 --> 01:31:16,960
these findings if they're useful to

2705
01:31:19,830 --> 01:31:18,560
other fronts or other people to see them

2706
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:19,840
i mean that's what the internet's for

2707
01:31:24,790 --> 01:31:21,520
right

2708
01:31:26,070 --> 01:31:24,800
so you know i i know how people feel and

2709
01:31:27,590 --> 01:31:26,080
how that you know they have some place

2710
01:31:28,550 --> 01:31:27,600
to go and talk and i i think that's

2711
01:31:31,189 --> 01:31:28,560
valuable

2712
01:31:32,550 --> 01:31:31,199
um in a lot of ways but if you really

2713
01:31:34,709 --> 01:31:32,560
want your own answers

2714
01:31:36,149 --> 01:31:34,719
form your own damn group of two people

2715
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:36,159
or 10 or whatever

2716
01:31:40,070 --> 01:31:37,760
and then when you're done with that that

2717
01:31:41,510 --> 01:31:40,080
project stop the group and go on to

2718
01:31:43,590 --> 01:31:41,520
something else

2719
01:31:45,350 --> 01:31:43,600
you know go on to the next project with

2720
01:31:46,470 --> 01:31:45,360
different people

2721
01:31:48,310 --> 01:31:46,480
because otherwise you're just going to

2722
01:31:50,310 --> 01:31:48,320
get the same answer all the time and

2723
01:31:51,750 --> 01:31:50,320
ufos are not the same answer all the

2724
01:31:55,669 --> 01:31:51,760
time that they just

2725
01:31:58,790 --> 01:31:55,679
aren't so mary grace was asking have i

2726
01:31:59,990 --> 01:31:58,800
started something no i haven't um a lot

2727
01:32:03,350 --> 01:32:00,000
of times my

2728
01:32:05,430 --> 01:32:03,360
uh my regular like life

2729
01:32:07,189 --> 01:32:05,440
for work um it did slow down at first

2730
01:32:09,030 --> 01:32:07,199
when the pandemic started but

2731
01:32:10,310 --> 01:32:09,040
uh but it's going crazy these days for

2732
01:32:13,669 --> 01:32:10,320
some reason so

2733
01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:13,679
i don't time to do something like that

2734
01:32:15,669 --> 01:32:14,880
but i do want to tell everyone that

2735
01:32:18,149 --> 01:32:15,679
phone lines

2736
01:32:18,709 --> 01:32:18,159
are open if you'd like to call in ask

2737
01:32:21,669 --> 01:32:18,719
our

2738
01:32:23,270 --> 01:32:21,679
guest a question uh and i'll leave so i

2739
01:32:24,790 --> 01:32:23,280
think she said you started something

2740
01:32:28,550 --> 01:32:24,800
because i got all uppity for a little

2741
01:32:31,830 --> 01:32:30,310
yeah no i haven't started a group or

2742
01:32:32,390 --> 01:32:31,840
anything like that i think that's what

2743
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:32,400
she meant

2744
01:32:36,149 --> 01:32:34,800
anyway okay you're doing what you what

2745
01:32:37,430 --> 01:32:36,159
you should be doing which is doing this

2746
01:32:38,870 --> 01:32:37,440
great show i mean that's your

2747
01:32:41,510 --> 01:32:38,880
contribution which is great

2748
01:32:42,310 --> 01:32:41,520
you do the thing that you find to do and

2749
01:32:44,870 --> 01:32:42,320
that's great

2750
01:32:45,350 --> 01:32:44,880
i think everybody should do that yeah

2751
01:32:48,229 --> 01:32:45,360
yeah

2752
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:48,239
i've enjoyed this this show has really

2753
01:32:50,709 --> 01:32:48,719
been

2754
01:32:52,390 --> 01:32:50,719
wonderful and i want to thank you know

2755
01:32:53,430 --> 01:32:52,400
everyone for being here and listening

2756
01:32:57,910 --> 01:32:53,440
and

2757
01:32:59,590 --> 01:32:57,920
um it's really interesting to talk to

2758
01:33:02,229 --> 01:32:59,600
people all over the world and

2759
01:33:03,590 --> 01:33:02,239
um you introduced me to paul heineck i

2760
01:33:06,629 --> 01:33:03,600
thank you still for that

2761
01:33:07,990 --> 01:33:06,639
and and um calvin parker parker yeah

2762
01:33:09,750 --> 01:33:08,000
that was a fun time out there

2763
01:33:11,669 --> 01:33:09,760
yeah it was it was a lot of fun it was

2764
01:33:13,590 --> 01:33:11,679
they're they're both they're both really

2765
01:33:14,950 --> 01:33:13,600
nice people i could not believe how cool

2766
01:33:16,709 --> 01:33:14,960
they were and how well we got along we

2767
01:33:19,270 --> 01:33:16,719
had a nice talk

2768
01:33:20,629 --> 01:33:19,280
yep uh the phone lines are open everyone

2769
01:33:24,070 --> 01:33:20,639
and that number is eight five

2770
01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:24,080
five 855-472-5483

2771
01:33:29,669 --> 01:33:27,760
and bill will be taking your call

2772
01:33:31,110 --> 01:33:29,679
so i guess i'm going to ask you this

2773
01:33:34,149 --> 01:33:31,120
question you know you

2774
01:33:39,590 --> 01:33:37,270
you know how people might experience

2775
01:33:40,310 --> 01:33:39,600
things in different ways and things like

2776
01:33:43,510 --> 01:33:40,320
that

2777
01:33:44,470 --> 01:33:43,520
what do you what do you think is in your

2778
01:33:47,030 --> 01:33:44,480
opinion

2779
01:33:48,310 --> 01:33:47,040
what um and i hate when people ask me

2780
01:33:50,790 --> 01:33:48,320
this when i'm on a show but i'm going to

2781
01:33:54,149 --> 01:33:50,800
ask you anyway

2782
01:33:58,870 --> 01:33:54,159
go ahead one of the sightings what like

2783
01:34:01,990 --> 01:33:58,880
one of the best historical uh encounters

2784
01:34:05,350 --> 01:34:02,000
what are mine or what are they in it's

2785
01:34:08,629 --> 01:34:05,360
oh my favorites yeah

2786
01:34:09,990 --> 01:34:08,639
pascal ghoul i like a lot uh this one

2787
01:34:13,430 --> 01:34:10,000
right here well documented

2788
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:13,440
yeah exactly yes watch calvin parker

2789
01:34:19,189 --> 01:34:15,360
which is why i was glad to meet him

2790
01:34:21,669 --> 01:34:19,199
pascagoula i like a lot um

2791
01:34:23,830 --> 01:34:21,679
the joe simonton pancake one i love that

2792
01:34:27,430 --> 01:34:23,840
one because it's so absurd

2793
01:34:28,550 --> 01:34:27,440
um i like the uh papua new guinea father

2794
01:34:31,910 --> 01:34:28,560
gill case

2795
01:34:32,709 --> 01:34:31,920
yeah i love that one yeah um those are

2796
01:34:34,470 --> 01:34:32,719
just a few

2797
01:34:36,149 --> 01:34:34,480
even dale sparrow that you were just

2798
01:34:39,669 --> 01:34:36,159
talking about recently the the

2799
01:34:41,510 --> 01:34:39,679
portage uh ohio case right because his

2800
01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:41,520
life was completely changed by that

2801
01:34:43,750 --> 01:34:43,360
thing it was kind of ruined just like

2802
01:34:46,950 --> 01:34:43,760
poor

2803
01:34:51,430 --> 01:34:46,960
um the guy uh um

2804
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:51,440
oh what was his name in in iowa

2805
01:34:54,709 --> 01:34:53,040
i can't remember his name that's another

2806
01:34:56,629 --> 01:34:54,719
favorite the

2807
01:34:58,709 --> 01:34:56,639
i can't think of it right now but dale

2808
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:58,719
sparrow what happened to him is kind of

2809
01:35:01,270 --> 01:35:00,400
typical what happens to a lot of people

2810
01:35:03,590 --> 01:35:01,280
that especially

2811
01:35:04,470 --> 01:35:03,600
law enforcement that report this he was

2812
01:35:08,070 --> 01:35:04,480
kind of

2813
01:35:09,910 --> 01:35:08,080
community um

2814
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:09,920
and it really affected his life in a

2815
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:12,000
negative way

2816
01:35:17,270 --> 01:35:15,199
um yeah and the clip that i played for

2817
01:35:18,870 --> 01:35:17,280
the people on kgra didn't get to see it

2818
01:35:21,830 --> 01:35:18,880
but you got to see it

2819
01:35:23,109 --> 01:35:21,840
um there was a gentleman that talked

2820
01:35:26,229 --> 01:35:23,119
about seeing

2821
01:35:28,950 --> 01:35:26,239
this uh red light come down and then

2822
01:35:30,629 --> 01:35:28,960
there were a blue light and the dogs

2823
01:35:32,310 --> 01:35:30,639
were all barking at six dogs and they

2824
01:35:35,109 --> 01:35:32,320
were all blocking that guy

2825
01:35:35,510 --> 01:35:35,119
yeah i saw a video i did remember him

2826
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:35,520
because

2827
01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:37,920
later on i believe it's in that very

2828
01:35:41,990 --> 01:35:38,800
same interview

2829
01:35:43,350 --> 01:35:42,000
he says um if i saw

2830
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:43,360
something right now if it landed right

2831
01:35:48,070 --> 01:35:46,320
beside me i'd never say a thing about it

2832
01:35:49,430 --> 01:35:48,080
yeah because that's what that's what i

2833
01:35:52,070 --> 01:35:49,440
thought said too

2834
01:35:53,669 --> 01:35:52,080
i think yeah he said that the ufo had

2835
01:35:55,109 --> 01:35:53,679
come back and he gave it a name he

2836
01:35:57,109 --> 01:35:55,119
called it floyd

2837
01:35:58,149 --> 01:35:57,119
asks if you have his son on ask him

2838
01:36:00,310 --> 01:35:58,159
about that

2839
01:36:01,669 --> 01:36:00,320
in fact there's if you look it up online

2840
01:36:05,030 --> 01:36:01,679
i think there's actually a

2841
01:36:06,390 --> 01:36:05,040
um an article called a ufo called floyd

2842
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:06,400
and it basically deals with what

2843
01:36:10,390 --> 01:36:08,159
happened dale sparr it broke up his

2844
01:36:13,510 --> 01:36:10,400
marriage it basically ruined his life

2845
01:36:15,590 --> 01:36:13,520
um uh lonnie zamora had those problems

2846
01:36:17,750 --> 01:36:15,600
too that's another favorite case too the

2847
01:36:19,750 --> 01:36:17,760
lonnie's amore case yeah i like that one

2848
01:36:21,430 --> 01:36:19,760
a lot that i always go back to that one

2849
01:36:23,590 --> 01:36:21,440
but yeah i mean there's there's so many

2850
01:36:25,830 --> 01:36:23,600
classic cases i can't think of any

2851
01:36:27,669 --> 01:36:25,840
more recently i mean i like all of

2852
01:36:30,790 --> 01:36:27,679
whitley strieber's stuff

2853
01:36:32,790 --> 01:36:30,800
um because of his viewpoint and i

2854
01:36:34,550 --> 01:36:32,800
i keep saying this on shows and people

2855
01:36:35,590 --> 01:36:34,560
say well you do do you believe him or

2856
01:36:37,510 --> 01:36:35,600
not

2857
01:36:39,669 --> 01:36:37,520
i said that's like asking if i believe

2858
01:36:40,629 --> 01:36:39,679
the beatles that's like asking me if i

2859
01:36:43,830 --> 01:36:40,639
believe

2860
01:36:45,669 --> 01:36:43,840
um monet's what his motivation was for

2861
01:36:47,669 --> 01:36:45,679
for painting the water lilies

2862
01:36:49,750 --> 01:36:47,679
that's that's not the question the

2863
01:36:50,629 --> 01:36:49,760
question is how is the subject coming

2864
01:36:53,430 --> 01:36:50,639
through his mind

2865
01:36:54,790 --> 01:36:53,440
as an artist what is he what is he

2866
01:36:58,070 --> 01:36:54,800
trying to communicate to you

2867
01:37:00,070 --> 01:36:58,080
that you know

2868
01:37:02,310 --> 01:37:00,080
at least in my view that you must

2869
01:37:02,950 --> 01:37:02,320
believe that aliens and ufos are here

2870
01:37:05,669 --> 01:37:02,960
and they're

2871
01:37:06,709 --> 01:37:05,679
walking to his bedroom what my take on

2872
01:37:10,070 --> 01:37:06,719
it is

2873
01:37:12,310 --> 01:37:10,080
this is um what do you think of his

2874
01:37:13,590 --> 01:37:12,320
interpretation of what's happened to him

2875
01:37:15,270 --> 01:37:13,600
and i think it's a valuable

2876
01:37:16,149 --> 01:37:15,280
interpretation like you know why the

2877
01:37:17,830 --> 01:37:16,159
beatles so

2878
01:37:20,070 --> 01:37:17,840
why are they so popular well because

2879
01:37:21,910 --> 01:37:20,080
there's something that they said in a

2880
01:37:22,390 --> 01:37:21,920
lot of their music and they presented it

2881
01:37:23,830 --> 01:37:22,400
that

2882
01:37:25,510 --> 01:37:23,840
connected with a lot of people and

2883
01:37:27,669 --> 01:37:25,520
that's kind of how i feel about

2884
01:37:28,870 --> 01:37:27,679
um strieber and maybe even travis walton

2885
01:37:29,350 --> 01:37:28,880
and people like that it's just kind of

2886
01:37:30,550 --> 01:37:29,360
like

2887
01:37:33,189 --> 01:37:30,560
well not really travis because he

2888
01:37:34,709 --> 01:37:33,199
doesn't try to his his view is that

2889
01:37:36,709 --> 01:37:34,719
this happened to him and it's exactly as

2890
01:37:38,629 --> 01:37:36,719
he described

2891
01:37:40,550 --> 01:37:38,639
but yeah i mean i think there should be

2892
01:37:43,669 --> 01:37:40,560
a lot more

2893
01:37:45,990 --> 01:37:43,679
art and music dealing with this subject

2894
01:37:49,270 --> 01:37:46,000
i have a collection of like 200 ufo

2895
01:37:52,149 --> 01:37:49,280
songs from the 1950s up to now

2896
01:37:53,830 --> 01:37:52,159
how about that i had whitley's on a few

2897
01:37:54,790 --> 01:37:53,840
months ago and i took a lot of flack for

2898
01:37:59,189 --> 01:37:54,800
that

2899
01:38:02,629 --> 01:38:00,470
how come you didn't call him out what do

2900
01:38:03,189 --> 01:38:02,639
you believe everything and i i let him

2901
01:38:05,590 --> 01:38:03,199
talk

2902
01:38:07,590 --> 01:38:05,600
i just let him do it i had that same

2903
01:38:09,109 --> 01:38:07,600
thing yeah i had people criticize me for

2904
01:38:09,750 --> 01:38:09,119
having them on and not questioning it's

2905
01:38:12,390 --> 01:38:09,760
like

2906
01:38:13,910 --> 01:38:12,400
that's not the point the point of having

2907
01:38:15,910 --> 01:38:13,920
whitley on is not to say

2908
01:38:18,550 --> 01:38:15,920
well what did this really happen where's

2909
01:38:20,390 --> 01:38:18,560
the proof it's like that's not the point

2910
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:20,400
that is not the point with whitley and

2911
01:38:24,550 --> 01:38:22,239
if you think that's the point of ufo

2912
01:38:26,550 --> 01:38:24,560
study then you go right ahead i think

2913
01:38:29,990 --> 01:38:26,560
it's far more rich than that

2914
01:38:33,189 --> 01:38:30,000
um and it has to include the the right

2915
01:38:35,910 --> 01:38:33,199
brain and our creative side and

2916
01:38:37,910 --> 01:38:35,920
you know what i wrote an essay many

2917
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:37,920
years ago called our ufos of cosmic art

2918
01:38:43,030 --> 01:38:39,360
project

2919
01:38:46,390 --> 01:38:45,590
a ufo sighting will affect people in

2920
01:38:49,910 --> 01:38:46,400
ways

2921
01:38:50,709 --> 01:38:49,920
that is echoed may the only other thing

2922
01:38:53,270 --> 01:38:50,719
that you can

2923
01:38:55,990 --> 01:38:53,280
come close to is something traumatic or

2924
01:38:59,189 --> 01:38:56,000
something beautiful or or inspirational

2925
01:39:00,310 --> 01:38:59,199
like um like seeing a movie or hearing a

2926
01:39:01,910 --> 01:39:00,320
piece of music or

2927
01:39:03,590 --> 01:39:01,920
or seeing a great piece of art or

2928
01:39:05,590 --> 01:39:03,600
whatever those

2929
01:39:07,430 --> 01:39:05,600
change the way people look at things

2930
01:39:09,350 --> 01:39:07,440
sometimes it changes their lives

2931
01:39:11,910 --> 01:39:09,360
ufo sightings the closer they are

2932
01:39:13,430 --> 01:39:11,920
actually often change people's lives and

2933
01:39:15,590 --> 01:39:13,440
the way the only other thing i can

2934
01:39:17,830 --> 01:39:15,600
equate that to is a great piece of art

2935
01:39:19,430 --> 01:39:17,840
it affects you so deeply that you start

2936
01:39:21,350 --> 01:39:19,440
questioning everything you start

2937
01:39:22,550 --> 01:39:21,360
seeing things in a different way and it

2938
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:22,560
may

2939
01:39:26,790 --> 01:39:24,320
you know change your life in profound

2940
01:39:28,790 --> 01:39:26,800
ways and it has

2941
01:39:30,870 --> 01:39:28,800
and that's not data that's not something

2942
01:39:32,390 --> 01:39:30,880
that's in a in a row of data

2943
01:39:34,310 --> 01:39:32,400
that's something that goes deeper into

2944
01:39:36,149 --> 01:39:34,320
who we are and

2945
01:39:37,590 --> 01:39:36,159
you know the right and left brain should

2946
01:39:40,390 --> 01:39:37,600
be both honored in

2947
01:39:42,310 --> 01:39:40,400
when studying ufos i i feel strongly

2948
01:39:44,390 --> 01:39:42,320
about that at this point

2949
01:39:46,310 --> 01:39:44,400
you know uh i know i'm going off the

2950
01:39:49,830 --> 01:39:46,320
topic a bit here but you just mentioned

2951
01:39:52,950 --> 01:39:49,840
art and i did a i did a

2952
01:39:55,189 --> 01:39:52,960
uh on my antiques podcast

2953
01:39:56,390 --> 01:39:55,199
i did a really nice show with a one of

2954
01:39:58,870 --> 01:39:56,400
the experts

2955
01:40:00,070 --> 01:39:58,880
of uh davinci and it was about the

2956
01:40:03,910 --> 01:40:00,080
salomon gandhi

2957
01:40:07,189 --> 01:40:03,920
uh painting recently that so recently

2958
01:40:09,430 --> 01:40:07,199
salvador mundi you mean yeah

2959
01:40:10,950 --> 01:40:09,440
sold for 400 million dollars you know

2960
01:40:11,590 --> 01:40:10,960
the most expensive piece of art ever

2961
01:40:14,550 --> 01:40:11,600
sold

2962
01:40:16,950 --> 01:40:14,560
yeah yeah but they had a film uh

2963
01:40:18,950 --> 01:40:16,960
christie's i think it was had a film

2964
01:40:20,790 --> 01:40:18,960
before at the exhibition and they had

2965
01:40:22,149 --> 01:40:20,800
people come up and stare at it and it

2966
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:22,159
was showing the people

2967
01:40:26,870 --> 01:40:25,280
it was showing them not not them uh you

2968
01:40:27,990 --> 01:40:26,880
know like it was the camera was facing

2969
01:40:28,709 --> 01:40:28,000
them when they were looking at the

2970
01:40:30,790 --> 01:40:28,719
artwork

2971
01:40:31,750 --> 01:40:30,800
yeah and there was so many people were

2972
01:40:35,109 --> 01:40:31,760
sobbing

2973
01:40:36,870 --> 01:40:35,119
and um you know leo dicaprio and they

2974
01:40:38,229 --> 01:40:36,880
had a lot of celebrities too and they

2975
01:40:40,470 --> 01:40:38,239
they were just tears in their eyes

2976
01:40:43,910 --> 01:40:40,480
looking at that thing and art is moving

2977
01:40:45,830 --> 01:40:43,920
it can be nothing you can't describe

2978
01:40:48,149 --> 01:40:45,840
what's happening to you the only that

2979
01:40:49,030 --> 01:40:48,159
that what's being communicated is not in

2980
01:40:51,750 --> 01:40:49,040
language

2981
01:40:53,990 --> 01:40:51,760
and that's exactly what happens in ufo

2982
01:40:55,830 --> 01:40:54,000
you know in a lot of ufo encounters

2983
01:40:57,189 --> 01:40:55,840
something is communicated even if it's

2984
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:57,199
just from you but

2985
01:41:00,310 --> 01:40:58,800
you can't describe it in language in

2986
01:41:03,430 --> 01:41:00,320
fact putting it in language

2987
01:41:06,950 --> 01:41:03,440
demeans the experience i think

2988
01:41:08,870 --> 01:41:06,960
vermeer uh the artwork of is just crazy

2989
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:08,880
wonderful art that you can look at the

2990
01:41:13,510 --> 01:41:10,400
girl with the pearl earring

2991
01:41:15,270 --> 01:41:13,520
400 year old painting and it looks like

2992
01:41:18,629 --> 01:41:15,280
it was painted yesterday i mean like

2993
01:41:20,950 --> 01:41:18,639
the vermeer painting the girl she's

2994
01:41:24,550 --> 01:41:20,960
looking over her shoulder yeah

2995
01:41:29,109 --> 01:41:24,560
that one you have ron uh calling

2996
01:41:32,470 --> 01:41:32,229
you there ron it's me great i forgot to

2997
01:41:35,910 --> 01:41:32,480
do

2998
01:41:41,030 --> 01:41:38,070
yeah i had a question for for both of

2999
01:41:44,709 --> 01:41:41,040
you um

3000
01:41:47,910 --> 01:41:44,719
what has been your

3001
01:41:51,830 --> 01:41:47,920
most compelling sighting and

3002
01:41:54,229 --> 01:41:51,840
how do you tell somebody about it when

3003
01:41:56,229 --> 01:41:54,239
you see it and it's like you cannot

3004
01:41:58,709 --> 01:41:56,239
believe

3005
01:42:00,149 --> 01:41:58,719
what you're looking at and so like how

3006
01:42:00,950 --> 01:42:00,159
do you how do you describe that to

3007
01:42:04,390 --> 01:42:00,960
somebody

3008
01:42:06,790 --> 01:42:04,400
who's gonna be a skeptic

3009
01:42:08,470 --> 01:42:06,800
i don't think you can because their mind

3010
01:42:11,510 --> 01:42:08,480
is already made up

3011
01:42:13,430 --> 01:42:11,520
it's unfortunate um so

3012
01:42:14,790 --> 01:42:13,440
it's it's part of that new do not engage

3013
01:42:17,350 --> 01:42:14,800
thing i have if somebody's not going to

3014
01:42:19,590 --> 01:42:17,360
listen to you and honor your

3015
01:42:21,590 --> 01:42:19,600
um experience then it's not really worth

3016
01:42:23,350 --> 01:42:21,600
talking to them i mean it's not

3017
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:23,360
why try to convince somebody who's not

3018
01:42:26,470 --> 01:42:24,719
going to be convinced

3019
01:42:29,430 --> 01:42:26,480
the other thing i think of when you say

3020
01:42:30,950 --> 01:42:29,440
that ron ronald is that

3021
01:42:32,709 --> 01:42:30,960
i don't know if you know this and i'm

3022
01:42:34,629 --> 01:42:32,719
sure you do but i've noticed this you'll

3023
01:42:35,830 --> 01:42:34,639
go to conventions or talk to people or

3024
01:42:38,870 --> 01:42:35,840
whatever

3025
01:42:42,310 --> 01:42:38,880
people that have had this experience

3026
01:42:44,310 --> 01:42:42,320
of of seeing a ufo close or far away

3027
01:42:46,070 --> 01:42:44,320
the only way you can describe it to

3028
01:42:47,669 --> 01:42:46,080
somebody is if somebody else has had

3029
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:47,679
that experience as well

3030
01:42:50,709 --> 01:42:49,040
i'll see people come up and they'll

3031
01:42:51,990 --> 01:42:50,719
immediate even though their experiences

3032
01:42:53,830 --> 01:42:52,000
are completely different

3033
01:42:55,510 --> 01:42:53,840
they will both know exactly what each

3034
01:42:58,229 --> 01:42:55,520
other's talking about

3035
01:42:59,910 --> 01:42:58,239
um and that's indescribable that's i

3036
01:43:01,510 --> 01:42:59,920
don't know really how any other way to

3037
01:43:03,270 --> 01:43:01,520
put that you don't know what it is

3038
01:43:05,669 --> 01:43:03,280
unless it's happened to you

3039
01:43:07,270 --> 01:43:05,679
so i mean it's of course you're going to

3040
01:43:07,990 --> 01:43:07,280
get grief from people who don't believe

3041
01:43:09,430 --> 01:43:08,000
you but

3042
01:43:10,550 --> 01:43:09,440
you kind of have to not care what they

3043
01:43:13,270 --> 01:43:10,560
think because they're never going to

3044
01:43:16,149 --> 01:43:13,280
believe you so why bother

3045
01:43:18,229 --> 01:43:16,159
um that's at least the conclusion i've

3046
01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:18,239
come to

3047
01:43:22,709 --> 01:43:20,560
yeah good point yeah and it doesn't mean

3048
01:43:25,750 --> 01:43:22,719
you're being rude it just means

3049
01:43:28,310 --> 01:43:25,760
how do you you know how do you make any

3050
01:43:29,830 --> 01:43:28,320
sense of it with anybody yeah i got you

3051
01:43:31,189 --> 01:43:29,840
yeah you got that's why people join

3052
01:43:32,229 --> 01:43:31,199
mufon and go to these groups because

3053
01:43:33,750 --> 01:43:32,239
there's people that have had that

3054
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:33,760
experience and they know

3055
01:43:37,910 --> 01:43:36,320
that they're going to be you know you

3056
01:43:39,990 --> 01:43:37,920
know no matter what they're going to be

3057
01:43:40,310 --> 01:43:40,000
at least around some receptive people i

3058
01:43:42,149 --> 01:43:40,320
will

3059
01:43:44,149 --> 01:43:42,159
always listen to people's experiences

3060
01:43:45,669 --> 01:43:44,159
you know i do this i go to conventions

3061
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:45,679
and i'm signing books and people often

3062
01:43:47,830 --> 01:43:47,040
come up to me and they will say can i

3063
01:43:49,270 --> 01:43:47,840
tell you something

3064
01:43:51,030 --> 01:43:49,280
and they tell me about what they've seen

3065
01:43:52,950 --> 01:43:51,040
or what happened to them and then

3066
01:43:55,030 --> 01:43:52,960
they don't want an explanation they

3067
01:43:55,669 --> 01:43:55,040
don't want me to do anything except to

3068
01:43:58,070 --> 01:43:55,679
say

3069
01:43:59,750 --> 01:43:58,080
you know thank you you know i'm i'm that

3070
01:44:02,229 --> 01:43:59,760
sounds like a great experience or

3071
01:44:03,669 --> 01:44:02,239
frightening or whatever it is all they

3072
01:44:05,430 --> 01:44:03,679
want is somebody that's going to listen

3073
01:44:06,229 --> 01:44:05,440
without questioning them or laughing at

3074
01:44:08,310 --> 01:44:06,239
them

3075
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:08,320
you know and that that that's the most

3076
01:44:10,950 --> 01:44:09,520
valuable thing i can do

3077
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:10,960
i think when somebody describes an

3078
01:44:14,390 --> 01:44:12,960
experience to me unless they want some

3079
01:44:14,950 --> 01:44:14,400
other kind of information or have a

3080
01:44:16,629 --> 01:44:14,960
question

3081
01:44:18,550 --> 01:44:16,639
but a lot of the time they don't they

3082
01:44:20,550 --> 01:44:18,560
just want to tell me

3083
01:44:23,510 --> 01:44:20,560
without without uh having somebody judge

3084
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:23,520
them and i think that's really valuable

3085
01:44:27,109 --> 01:44:25,119
thank you very much and thank you for

3086
01:44:28,310 --> 01:44:27,119
your work and thank you martin again for

3087
01:44:33,270 --> 01:44:28,320
a great show

3088
01:44:36,709 --> 01:44:35,669
uh you we'll probably let's see we've

3089
01:44:37,669 --> 01:44:36,719
yeah we're probably not going to take

3090
01:44:39,990 --> 01:44:37,679
any more calls

3091
01:44:41,669 --> 01:44:40,000
that's our sole call for this evening uh

3092
01:44:44,870 --> 01:44:41,679
thanks for that

3093
01:44:46,229 --> 01:44:44,880
um oh greg oh again like i said

3094
01:44:49,109 --> 01:44:46,239
let's see something else came up here

3095
01:44:50,629 --> 01:44:49,119
yeah we got five minutes um

3096
01:44:52,550 --> 01:44:50,639
when you were on last time i know it was

3097
01:44:53,830 --> 01:44:52,560
a long time ago but you must still have

3098
01:44:57,350 --> 01:44:53,840
this

3099
01:44:58,790 --> 01:44:57,360
actually last week

3100
01:45:00,390 --> 01:44:58,800
um because i thought it was a very

3101
01:45:01,510 --> 01:45:00,400
unique thing that you said and it still

3102
01:45:03,030 --> 01:45:01,520
stuck with me

3103
01:45:05,430 --> 01:45:03,040
well enough so i brought it up with dave

3104
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:05,440
marlar and mark rodiger last week

3105
01:45:10,470 --> 01:45:08,719
and that is uh the the strange part of a

3106
01:45:12,709 --> 01:45:10,480
ufo sighting

3107
01:45:14,229 --> 01:45:12,719
is something that's important i remember

3108
01:45:15,270 --> 01:45:14,239
you telling me about a woman that drove

3109
01:45:17,430 --> 01:45:15,280
by

3110
01:45:18,709 --> 01:45:17,440
uh her neighborhood she said she saw a

3111
01:45:21,189 --> 01:45:18,719
plaid bear and you said

3112
01:45:22,310 --> 01:45:21,199
wait a minute a plaid teddy bear or

3113
01:45:25,430 --> 01:45:22,320
something like that

3114
01:45:27,109 --> 01:45:25,440
rabbit okay and you said

3115
01:45:29,510 --> 01:45:27,119
it turns out that's not what happened

3116
01:45:32,550 --> 01:45:29,520
actually talk to the person that that

3117
01:45:33,590 --> 01:45:32,560
yeah i mean it was still weird but weird

3118
01:45:36,950 --> 01:45:33,600
things are what

3119
01:45:38,149 --> 01:45:36,960
i like the weird things about some ufo

3120
01:45:40,229 --> 01:45:38,159
sightings i think

3121
01:45:42,550 --> 01:45:40,239
the weirder they are you mentioned the

3122
01:45:44,629 --> 01:45:42,560
pancakes that's pretty darn weird

3123
01:45:46,149 --> 01:45:44,639
you know and and those are the things

3124
01:45:48,629 --> 01:45:46,159
that kind of

3125
01:45:50,950 --> 01:45:48,639
almost make it more convincing in a way

3126
01:45:52,629 --> 01:45:50,960
yeah the outliers are i think where a

3127
01:45:53,990 --> 01:45:52,639
lot of the answer lies

3128
01:45:56,550 --> 01:45:54,000
carla turner said this when i

3129
01:45:58,310 --> 01:45:56,560
interviewed her a long time ago uh ufo

3130
01:45:59,830 --> 01:45:58,320
abduction researcher carla turner she

3131
01:46:01,830 --> 01:45:59,840
said i think the answer is going to lie

3132
01:46:03,669 --> 01:46:01,840
in the anomalous details and i totally

3133
01:46:05,510 --> 01:46:03,679
agree with that

3134
01:46:06,870 --> 01:46:05,520
if you start filtering out the stuff

3135
01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:06,880
that doesn't quote undoes

3136
01:46:10,709 --> 01:46:09,040
unquote doesn't fit i think you're

3137
01:46:14,070 --> 01:46:10,719
missing

3138
01:46:15,189 --> 01:46:14,080
large swaths of what's going on uh this

3139
01:46:16,790 --> 01:46:15,199
is a question up here

3140
01:46:17,990 --> 01:46:16,800
um and i'm sorry if i missed some of

3141
01:46:18,790 --> 01:46:18,000
your questions we still have five more

3142
01:46:20,950 --> 01:46:18,800
minutes

3143
01:46:22,870 --> 01:46:20,960
i'll try to look for some uh bobby wants

3144
01:46:23,189 --> 01:46:22,880
to know have you ever done any debunking

3145
01:46:26,310 --> 01:46:23,199
or

3146
01:46:30,950 --> 01:46:26,320
recreating of scenes to try to make uh

3147
01:46:38,149 --> 01:46:34,550
no i don't think i have i mean i don't

3148
01:46:40,229 --> 01:46:38,159
i have you know as an armchair person or

3149
01:46:41,910 --> 01:46:40,239
you know knowing what i know about

3150
01:46:44,390 --> 01:46:41,920
flying and things like that if i

3151
01:46:46,870 --> 01:46:44,400
can say something about something i will

3152
01:46:49,270 --> 01:46:46,880
but no i mean

3153
01:46:51,270 --> 01:46:49,280
i i guess i've done some debunking of

3154
01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:51,280
things i wrote an article about um

3155
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:53,440
ufos and renaissance paintings once and

3156
01:46:57,510 --> 01:46:54,639
i got so many

3157
01:46:58,229 --> 01:46:57,520
nasty emails and messages about it

3158
01:47:00,229 --> 01:46:58,239
because they

3159
01:47:01,990 --> 01:47:00,239
they meant those things that people that

3160
01:47:05,109 --> 01:47:02,000
are thinking or ufos

3161
01:47:08,470 --> 01:47:05,119
are or the sun or something right

3162
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:08,480
well it depends i mean it

3163
01:47:13,270 --> 01:47:11,760
i was saying that if you know some of

3164
01:47:14,790 --> 01:47:13,280
the history around something and this is

3165
01:47:16,390 --> 01:47:14,800
just renaissance

3166
01:47:17,830 --> 01:47:16,400
italian renaissance paintings i wasn't

3167
01:47:19,750 --> 01:47:17,840
talking about anything else people's

3168
01:47:20,790 --> 01:47:19,760
like oh well everything in history is

3169
01:47:22,229 --> 01:47:20,800
fake then it's like

3170
01:47:24,070 --> 01:47:22,239
no i was just talking about ufos and

3171
01:47:26,229 --> 01:47:24,080
renaissance paintings one because my

3172
01:47:28,470 --> 01:47:26,239
only degree is in art history

3173
01:47:29,990 --> 01:47:28,480
um and two is because i'm very

3174
01:47:31,669 --> 01:47:30,000
interested in the italian renaissance

3175
01:47:34,629 --> 01:47:31,679
it's just the thing that i like

3176
01:47:35,189 --> 01:47:34,639
um and what was in the paintings were uh

3177
01:47:37,109 --> 01:47:35,199
the the

3178
01:47:39,189 --> 01:47:37,119
famous one the madonna of the ufo that's

3179
01:47:41,109 --> 01:47:39,199
in the palazzo vecchio in florence

3180
01:47:42,790 --> 01:47:41,119
it's that famous one where the you know

3181
01:47:44,149 --> 01:47:42,800
marion jesus but then behind her in the

3182
01:47:46,470 --> 01:47:44,159
sky is this

3183
01:47:48,629 --> 01:47:46,480
kind of oval-shaped cloud and it's got

3184
01:47:50,229 --> 01:47:48,639
great golden rays coming out of it

3185
01:47:53,109 --> 01:47:50,239
um and there's a guy on the ground like

3186
01:47:57,270 --> 01:47:53,119
pointing at it and a dog looking at it

3187
01:47:59,030 --> 01:47:57,280
and you know i i read an essay by an art

3188
01:47:59,990 --> 01:47:59,040
historian who's going to be skeptical

3189
01:48:02,629 --> 01:48:00,000
anyway but

3190
01:48:04,870 --> 01:48:02,639
you know his explanation was you weren't

3191
01:48:07,109 --> 01:48:04,880
supposed to show god

3192
01:48:08,550 --> 01:48:07,119
that is supposed to be a divine presence

3193
01:48:09,990 --> 01:48:08,560
the only time everything anybody ever

3194
01:48:11,910 --> 01:48:10,000
really showed it i think is i think

3195
01:48:12,629 --> 01:48:11,920
michelangelo's painting of you know the

3196
01:48:16,149 --> 01:48:12,639
creation of

3197
01:48:18,229 --> 01:48:16,159
adam um it was uh

3198
01:48:20,310 --> 01:48:18,239
right it was it was there it it

3199
01:48:22,149 --> 01:48:20,320
represents the divine and they can't

3200
01:48:24,070 --> 01:48:22,159
show it exactly because it would be a

3201
01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:24,080
blasphemous and idolatrous

3202
01:48:28,629 --> 01:48:25,840
especially in florence at that time to

3203
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:28,639
show a depiction of of god himself or

3204
01:48:32,390 --> 01:48:30,960
itself or whatever and so they used this

3205
01:48:34,709 --> 01:48:32,400
convention of having a

3206
01:48:37,270 --> 01:48:34,719
a cloud or or something you know

3207
01:48:40,709 --> 01:48:37,280
floating in the sky that is is glowing

3208
01:48:42,629 --> 01:48:40,719
now maybe somebody saw a ufo and

3209
01:48:44,229 --> 01:48:42,639
and and decided that that's the way to

3210
01:48:47,109 --> 01:48:44,239
depict the

3211
01:48:48,390 --> 01:48:47,119
god but um you know it's it's very well

3212
01:48:49,030 --> 01:48:48,400
and so few of these other things are

3213
01:48:50,709 --> 01:48:49,040
very well

3214
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:50,719
the the one in kosovo the one with the

3215
01:48:53,590 --> 01:48:52,159
two figures and the things that look

3216
01:48:56,229 --> 01:48:53,600
like spaceships

3217
01:48:57,750 --> 01:48:56,239
um oh yeah that yeah that's the sun and

3218
01:48:58,790 --> 01:48:57,760
the moon i mean you can tell by the

3219
01:49:00,390 --> 01:48:58,800
iconography that

3220
01:49:02,070 --> 01:49:00,400
it represents the sun and moon in fact

3221
01:49:03,270 --> 01:49:02,080
those logos are on the sides of what

3222
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:03,280
they're inside

3223
01:49:06,790 --> 01:49:04,960
so i was thinking of that particularly

3224
01:49:08,709 --> 01:49:06,800
yeah you know i mean

3225
01:49:10,709 --> 01:49:08,719
and you know the idea that apollo drives

3226
01:49:11,669 --> 01:49:10,719
the drives the sun across the sky every

3227
01:49:12,950 --> 01:49:11,679
day in a chariot

3228
01:49:15,189 --> 01:49:12,960
well that's how people thought about

3229
01:49:17,430 --> 01:49:15,199
things then we only have one

3230
01:49:19,030 --> 01:49:17,440
here so let me just quickly i commend to

3231
01:49:20,629 --> 01:49:19,040
get various questions do you think there

3232
01:49:21,510 --> 01:49:20,639
is a link between the phenomenon and

3233
01:49:23,669 --> 01:49:21,520
tapping into

3234
01:49:25,030 --> 01:49:23,679
consciousness and then we're going to

3235
01:49:25,669 --> 01:49:25,040
have to wrap it up you got one minute

3236
01:49:30,070 --> 01:49:25,679
yeah

3237
01:49:31,750 --> 01:49:30,080
okay um i think so

3238
01:49:34,149 --> 01:49:31,760
the first thing i think of when you say

3239
01:49:36,950 --> 01:49:34,159
that is people like greer

3240
01:49:38,310 --> 01:49:36,960
or even whitley strieber meditating and

3241
01:49:40,390 --> 01:49:38,320
concentrating on some

3242
01:49:42,229 --> 01:49:40,400
kind of contact and that seems to work

3243
01:49:44,310 --> 01:49:42,239
for them

3244
01:49:45,589 --> 01:49:44,320
i think there's a very deep connection

3245
01:49:47,669 --> 01:49:45,599
between the phenomenon

3246
01:49:49,750 --> 01:49:47,679
and what people call consciousness

3247
01:49:53,430 --> 01:49:49,760
especially your subconscious

3248
01:49:55,030 --> 01:49:53,440
and that um that should probably be

3249
01:49:58,229 --> 01:49:55,040
explored more it's just kind of

3250
01:50:00,709 --> 01:49:58,239
it's kind of anathema anathematized

3251
01:50:02,070 --> 01:50:00,719
because of the ufo subject and

3252
01:50:03,510 --> 01:50:02,080
consciousness but i think there's a

3253
01:50:05,270 --> 01:50:03,520
definite connection with it

3254
01:50:06,709 --> 01:50:05,280
also you know what whitley strieber's

3255
01:50:08,550 --> 01:50:06,719
wife ann said there's a connection

3256
01:50:10,149 --> 01:50:08,560
between this and what we call the dead

3257
01:50:11,669 --> 01:50:10,159
and i think that's a very important

3258
01:50:14,070 --> 01:50:11,679
connection too

3259
01:50:15,430 --> 01:50:14,080
greg we ran we're past time so anyway

3260
01:50:18,790 --> 01:50:15,440
thank you so much

3261
01:50:20,550 --> 01:50:18,800
thank you all right thank you

3262
01:50:21,830 --> 01:50:20,560
all right everyone so that's it for the

3263
01:50:23,910 --> 01:50:21,840
show thank you so much

3264
01:50:25,430 --> 01:50:23,920
and remember to come back for jonathan

3265
01:50:28,229 --> 01:50:25,440
lace next week

3266
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:28,239
and also remember to keep your eyes to

3267
01:50:47,690 --> 01:50:39,290
the sky